Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

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Dr Amazing
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Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Dr Amazing » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:48 pm

I recently had to sell my Moog Prodigy to pay rent (sad times).

So I was thinking about someday replacing it with a Little Phatty...but the lack of readily available controls on the Phatty has me concerned. Has this been a problem for people? Or do people not seem to mind?

I have also considered the Minitaur but it does not seem like it would have the sonic flexibility of the Prodigy or Little Phatty.

Thanks!

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Sir Nose » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:59 pm

For programming sounds I have not been limited at all by only 4 knobs. For performance tweaking, the only issue for me is wanting to tweak filter and res together or manipulate two parameters in the envelope section. There is pot mapping so each knob can be configured to one dedicated function even outside of the section it is in. Using an expression pedal for filter so the knob can control res works. Or a knob job/fader box midi controller really opens it up. Both knob per function, but more importantly easy access to menu options.
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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Rick N Boogie » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:01 am

My Phatty's 4 knobs in no way feels insufficient. A bit of a bother sometimes, but not as bad as menu diving.
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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Alex E » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:22 am

The interface is so logical I could program it quickly without arms.
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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by GuyaGuy » Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:24 am

Agreed. It's a super simple interface--not at all like the Source-style one-knob editing. I've even become adept at using my thumb to hit the button I need while simultaneously dialing the knob with my pointer and middle fingers. If there were an audience that would be impressed by such things, it would be amazed.

But yeah, it's worth picking up an expression peda for double tweakage if the wheel doesn't do the trick for you.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Dr Amazing » Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:19 am

Thank you all!

Yeah my big concerns were
1. filter and res at the same time
2. envelope

I know I do simultaneous tweaks on my prodigy and it doesn't even have CV much less MIDI...so I concerned I am going to want to get crazy with a sequencer and the Phatty my my lack of nobbiness will make me curse Bob!

I will trust you guys and I don't know how to use the expression pedal to do this or even what a "job/fader box midi controller" is...I can probably use the google and figure it out...but any addition help on this would be great!

again thanks a lot guys!

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by GuyaGuy » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:01 am

Just get the Moog expression pedal, plug it into the filter jack and sweep away. If you want to get fancy, get the MP201 and you can use it to control various parameters.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by volumetrik » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:42 pm

Yeah I came close to purchasing Little Phatty but because of this very reason I did not, why did they ruin it is just beyond me...same problem with the Mopho keyboard.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Sir Nose » Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:50 pm

Just remembered the biggest limitation to me when playing the panel live. The OSC footings, mod source, and mod destination have a single button that cycles through the options, cycling backwards is not an option.

This is where an external midi controller is actually needed. No other option to jump for 4' directly back to 8' or ramp up LFO directly to a tri LFO.
"knob job/ fader box": Behringer BCF/BCR 2000, novation makes one, and there are a few high end options
Low end boxes: lots of knobs/faders for cheap, good for button push selections like jumping around the options you are forced to cycle through on the front panel or menu options like filter slope. I often assign a fader as a giant easy to use switch, bump it and the midi CC message is sent.
higher end boxes: needed if you want to sweep parameters without stepping (I just use the front panel controls)
The Phatty's have 14-bit midi for all of the parameters (as of OS3) that you would need smooth transitions for. Budget boxes either are 7-bit only or have a scan rate that limits the knobs/faders to only really sends 8 or 9 bit even when set to 14-bit mode.
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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by vox345 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:17 pm

volumetrik wrote:Yeah I came close to purchasing Little Phatty but because of this very reason I did not, why did they ruin it is just beyond me...same problem with the Mopho keyboard.
i thought of the same thing most others did, at least give it filter res and cut knobs.
The newier voyager is much more for more knobs.
i think it's got to do with marketing and even moog of all companies does corporate bs. There's almost always a feature (not just moog) i think why would they do this(repackaged engine, missing big features, etc)? They build it just enough to keep people buying and then buying the next product with slightly different or more features. Because If they made the perfect synth at an affordable price, everyone would buy it even many years after it's release and always generate sales, but not as much sales compared to what they're doing.

It can be done for cheaper. look how many analog features minibrute has for $499. Dual Analog osc korg monotrons for $45. They're doing high volume sales for profit, but missing features, the monotron missing features are obvious, minibrute needs at least another osc and at least dual polophany and 49 keys to become a legend. bet yer waiting to see what they make next cause minibrute's profit will give them money to play with, don't get yer hopes up too much.

I'd love to see investors pay a non-mainstream synth maker to build an affordable synth everyone's happy with that will continue to sell forever and become a legend cause it was made with passion and has what people want. They dont have the marketing and power in the industry to compete with roland and korg, etc on their level, but they'd do well.

LP is aite i gues for a used rack price. but it think it has digital parts, i'd want the 100% analog experience if ima pay more for it. But mono these days? i could understand mono when synths cost as much as a car, and like said in the moog movie something like: "..he asked me to buy his minimoog for half price cause it was broke. I demo'd it. it was brand new open box, but he said it only played one note at a time"
Last edited by vox345 on Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Ashe37 » Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:51 pm

vox345 wrote: LP is aite i gues for a used rack price. but it think it has digital parts, i'd want the 100% analog experience if ima pay more for it. But mono these days? i could understand mono when synths cost as much as a car, and like said in the moog movie something like: "..he asked me to buy his minimoog for half price cause it was broke. I demo'd it. it was brand new open box, but he said it only played one note at a time"
The signal path on the LP (and SP) is 100% analog. The 'digital parts' is patch storage, front panel control and MIDI. Generally, if you want patch storage and MIDI, you're going to end up with a digital part in the unit somewhere.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:50 am

I am knob-per-function all the way, and I complained bitterly about the Little Phatty.

That is, until I played one.

While I will always prefer knob-per-function, I have to say that the Phatty's implementation is so intuitive, quick, and comfortable, that it makes playing it quite a pleasure. I found that quite shocking.
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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by vox345 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:20 am

^2
ah, thought w/o googling maybe it had a digi lfo or synch, which still lets it say 100% analog signal path like minibrute does but with digi modulation lfo "so we can software update it" said the rep at naam or midi sync it.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by nathanscribe » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:22 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I complained bitterly about the Little Phatty [...] until I played one.
Unfortunately, this is the way too many people function on a permanent and immovable basis. At least you had the background of playing lots of very knobby synths, which the bulk of complainers don't. So while the internet's whiny spoilt brats harp on about how c**p something is they've never even touched (except maybe once in a shop and it wasn't turned on) the rest of us just get on with it.

I also find the LP intuitive and accessible. Only the least-used functions belong to the menu, and it's not exactly hard to scroll through. Most of the issues I felt were problematic when I bought mine in early 2007 have been dealt with in subsequent upgrades - fingered glide, arpeggiator - and the major remaining thing I know is not going to get sorted is the lack of an audio noise generator. Most of the time, I don't use noise in patches, but when I do, I often also want LFO modulation - which is not possible on the LP given the way the noise is implemented. Even then, there's a way around it, by using the audio input - so it doesn't cause me sleepless nights, nor do I feel the need to join a forum to cry about it.

As for someone's comments about monosynths being outmoded, it doesn't matter and most of us round here don't care. Plenty of people like instruments that only play one note at a time, and make good music with them, and while everyone is free to have opinions, some of them are irrelevant. Also, some of them are wrong. The market shows quite clearly that monosynths are absolutely not irrelevant or outmoded.

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Re: Little Phatty Lack of Knobs

Post by Ashe37 » Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:41 am

nathanscribe wrote: Unfortunately, this is the way too many people function on a permanent and immovable basis. At least you had the background of playing lots of very knobby synths, which the bulk of complainers don't. So while the internet's whiny spoilt brats harp on about how c**p something is they've never even touched (except maybe once in a shop and it wasn't turned on) the rest of us just get on with it.
Or more likely, they messed with it at Guitar Center or Sam Ash, where it was piped thru a 4" Yamaha monitor and decided it didn't have much bass.

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