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Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:51 pm
by seamonkey
It's always sad to see a piece of my studio go, but if it was giving you problems than it's understandable.
I had a Emulator EIII sampler keyboard I loved, but it had ghosts in the machine and even though I never moved it, it was forever acting up. Even after getting it fixed it would be tempermental.
Hated to see it go, but at some point.......
At least it opened up my studio space to acquire my beloved Emu Emulator II, which I love.

I assume from your earlier comments you will be looking to buy a vintage Odyssey and not the Korg reissue.
And also, it sounds like you're looking for the MkIII, is that right?

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:16 pm
by tomorrowstops
Yeah, an original is what I'm after. A MKII 2813 would be ideal, but at the end of the day, I know I'll also be happy with the MKIII, given the cost savings.

I haven't played the Korg reissue, but if its anything like the MS20 reissue, it'll leave me feeling....meh. I'm very familiar with the vintage sound and feel. Modern stuff, albeit convenient (price point, availability), just doesn't sound and feel the same to me.

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:21 pm
by tomorrowstops
Well, here we are in July and I still haven't landed an Odyssey yet. I went ahead and purchased the full license for the Oddity 2, and I gotta say, I'm having trouble finding faults in it. Everything I throw at it programming wise sounds pretty great. Its also super lite in the CPU usage department, so I can run as many instances as I like in Logic.

What I definitely don't enjoy is the process of tweaking with the mouse, instead of my hands. Its just not as enthralling as the real thing. So I'm still considering getting the hardware.

I'm happy to go for the Karp model if the difference in sound between it and the Oddity is drastically different. Seamonkey, I'm pretty sure you have both - whats your opinion? I'd have a hard time spending $1000 just have a hardware interface if the sonic landscape is identical. If thats the case, I'll probably hold off until I can afford to splurge on a vintage MKIII. The idiosyncrasies of a vintage build + hardware interface will be worth the extra $$ to me.

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:23 pm
by seamonkey
I heard my name being mentioned. :D
How timely your question regarding the Odyssey and Oddity.
I was improvising the other night with a patch I created on Omnisphere and laid a scratch pad track down.
I had the idea in my head of adding a Oddity patch(mine)and used some stereo delay and reverb to get my idea down with the intention of duplicating the patch on my Korg Odyssey and getting that analog vibe in it.
Well I've been trying for two days to duplicate the patch and I can't get near it. I hate to say it, but for the song and to my ears the Oddity is kicking it's butt.
To be honest, I haven't really used the Odyssey much, I've had some things going on that prevented that, but I must say it has been frustrating trying to dial in the sound.
I even used the same effects(soft) on the sound when recording the Odyssey.

I love the Oddity and have had it since it first came out. I've got a large bank of personal sounds I've created for it, and I always found it quite easy to create a new sound. And it always sounds very rich and full to my ears.
Dave Spiers did an excellent job on creating a fantastic analog sound synth.

Since I haven't spent that much time with the Odyssey to give you proper advise I can only tell you what I've experienced trying to duplicate my patches from the Oddity.

You might want to check out some of Marc's brand new videos on the Korg Odyssey.

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:08 pm
by tomorrowstops
Wow. Not the response I was expecting. Having trouble recreating an Oddity patch on an Odyssey....very intriguing. Perhaps the initial Oddity patch was a thing of pure inspiration that just can't be recreated exactly on the Odyssey. Like the sliders have to be adjust ever so slightly or something.

I just watched the intro to Marc's Karp Odyssey series. He's got his shot framed in such a way that its easy to copy settings on to the Oddity. I can definitely hear a difference in sound with the one patch I tried. Its the typical 'two dimensional software sound vs the three dimensional analog sound' thing. Its almost as if the hardware is a bit drier. But a better analysis could be done in person.

Whats really interesting, is that I know the Karp Odyssey is 100% analog, but somehow in my brain I thing of it as a virtual analog. Because its still an imitation of the real (vintage) thing. My impression of vintage vs remake is sonic advantage to vintage; a little more raw and generally idiosyncratic. Its a character defining thing.

Ugh, I always feel like I won't be satisfied unless its the real deal. In this case that means spending twice as much money and waiting twice as long to get it!

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:07 pm
by meatballfulton
tomorrowstops wrote:Its still an imitation of the real (vintage) thing.

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:11 pm
by tomorrowstops
yeah yeah, tell me all about it :roll:

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:19 pm
by Ashe37
You know you're likely to hear a difference in sound between two 'identical' Arp Odysseys, right?

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:42 pm
by tomorrowstops
Of course! My frame of reference here is comparing the new MS-20 Mini to the Mk1 I had. It was a pretty distinct difference. I'm only assuming of course that there will be a similar difference between the new Odyssey and a vintage one...

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:55 pm
by Ashe37
I'm saying that there will be a difference between two vintage Odysseys. Not just between new and old. Watch some of the Sonic State shows and listen to Dave Speirs talk about the differences between the units he owns that were used as reference when they were writing Oddity.

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:29 am
by tomorrowstops
Oh, I know, I know. Your point is well made. I'm pondering highly subjective questions that can only answered by direct experience. I am fascinated with the concept though, so I like thinking/talking about it. I will say thats its not at all practical to put this much energy into the analysis of sound. I really need to redirect all of it towards the composition of music. A sound-designer will have a slightly different opinion!

At the end of the day,

The Oddity sounds great, I'm just not in love with the interface (using a computer to tweak a synth). I'm going to keep trying though. I did get a decent amount accomplished before I distracted myself from actual work. The flow of just working in-the-box on a small laptop and comfortable headphones, just can't be beat! So efficient.

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:02 pm
by meatballfulton
I really don't care how exact a reissue is. I owned a Voyager for a while and I never wished it was a Model D, even after reading lots of reasons why it was inferior and watching all the comparison videos. What all the naysayers overlooked was the Voyager was cheaper, had more features and to my ears still sounded like a MiniMoog.

I feel the same about these Korgs. If the Karp doesn't sound just like my whiteface Odyssey did how could I tell, I sold it 25 years ago and have only my memory to go by. I'm sure the Karp would satisfy my ears, esp. since it has the other two filters thrown in. So for me at $1000 the Karp is an exercise in nostalgia. At $1500+ for a vintage unit, it's just a more expensive exercise ;)

I have always been pragmatic. Although I've owned many synths over the years I've never owned more than 2 or 3 for any extended period of time. I know an MS20 doesn't sound like an Odyssey which doesn't sound like a miniBrute which doesn't sound like a BSII which doesn't sound like an Evolver. But I have owned the Evolver for a decade and what the others bring to the table simply do not justify their prices for me.

OK, done with the windbag act :lol:

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:22 pm
by tomorrowstops
Fair enough, meatball. For me the Voyager was a wonderful instrument. Its was my first real analog mono and I had it for many years. But it just never had the wild edge to the filter I desired. It was oh so smooth and tame. Every single vintage piece I've tried has had the this wild edge. This trait resonates so well with me that it now defines how 'real' or 'natural' a synth sounds to me.

The difference between the MkI MS20 and the Mini is pretty massive. A while ago I did a basic side by side demo of them and there was no doubt how much more character the MkI had, with little to no effort. I have another mini here right now I just auditioned, and the 'noise bleed' issue is rampant in this one. Yeah, the MkI had plenty of bleed, but it was a much duller, more natural sounding noise. I didn't even notice it. Not ugly white noise thats louder than the pitch of the oscillator you're using! It just seems like they cut some corners a little too tight with this one.

The MS20 experience is why I'm prejudging Korg's Odyssey. I must say though, thanks to Marc's demos of the nitty gritty, it seems like Korg might have stepped up their game in the development of this reissue. I'm pretty close to just ordering one to see for myself!

Whats really interesting to me is how most of us buy these instruments before trying them. I come from guitar world, which was the complete opposite. The 'right' guitar to buy was the one you sat down with and just immediately fell in love with how it felt. Sound was *almost* secondary. It could have looked incredible and been spec'd right out the way you wanted, but if it didn't feel right, then you didn't buy it! I would never buy a guitar without playing it first. I find those opportunities to experience that with synths exist few and far between. The stores near me have a few options to try, but its all new stuff (never the new stuff I want though), and most certainly never any used/vintage. So we're stuck discussing the options with others on the internet.

Maybe a connection isn't required with synths. Or guitars. Or any instruments. But I like to think so...

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:12 pm
by seamonkey
You've been consistent in your desire to own the vintage version of the Odyssey.
That being said, I'd suggest just waiting until you can find one.
I think it will be one of those questions that will dog you forever if you don't get one, use it, record with it and fine out once and for all if it's all you thought it would be.

Until then, use the Oddity, and when you get the Odyssey you can still use both of them.
Sometimes, you might just want to record into your DAW without firing up all the hardware.

I spent the afternoon trying to replicate my Oddity patch on the Odyssey and thought I'd come close to it.
So when my wife came home, I played the track for her, one with the Oddity and one with the Odyssey version but never told her what I was doing.
She picked the Oddity version.
Of course there are many variables between the two, and I won't make the assumption it is better.
And I would think in more capable hands who know the Odyssey better than I could probably get the same sound.
It just seems there is something added in the Oddity version and I can't figure out what it is.
I did another patch I had created on the Oddity, a lead with a nice gnarly filter growl on it as the note is sustained, and tried to get it on the Odyssey and I couldn't get it.

I need to spend more dedicated time learning my way around my whiteface Odyssey, but this experience has given me food for thought.
I love the interface, and the interaction of having hands on programming and I can only think it's due to my lack of experience or perhaps Dave Spiers added some special mojo to the software version. ;)

Re: Arp Odyssey

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:49 am
by tomorrowstops
The more time I spend working with Oddity and staying 100% in-the-box, the more I'm realizing how killer this workflow is.

I think I'm just going to save my money and see how far I can take this adventure. I'm think an album done 100% in-the-box is happening!

This will be a first - not buying gear to start/complete project 'x'. Weird....