Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:19 am

[/quote]If you want analogue drums from a modern piece of hardware then I'd pick the Elektron Rytm over the Tempest. Played them both and the Tempest is cool but as a strictly drum machine the Rytm beats it. Tempest is cool as a weird pad synth more than a drum machine in my opinion.[/quote]

I want to make drum and percussion sounds from an analog drum machine and just import that into my DAW as samples. With that being said the ELektron Rytm beats the Tempest? I really don"t have any access to these 2 machines because I live in Alaska which does not have any pro audio gear stores nearby. I was set on the tempest but now that you mentioned the specialty of the Rytm I am not sure which to get now.

any feedback on the two based on my style of DAW production would really help in make a final decision.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:22 am

GuyaGuy wrote:
varun213 wrote: thanks, Im pretty certain on getting the Tempest first. I still have a reasonable budget to get one more synth and I really had interest in the Prophet 12 MODULE. Could you give me some brief input on the prophet 12 module and from your perspective its strengths and weaknesses?

The tempest is pretty clear that is an amazing synth/drum machine. Which I am excited to get soon!
I've never had or played the P12 to compare it. But based on the specs I'd say if you're looking for analog-type sounds it has a lot you'd never use--the complex digital waves, FM synthesis, digital fx, etc. So the Prophet 08 might make more sense. Instead of those specifically digital bits it has the 16x4 sequencer, which is one of my favorite things on DSI synths, and it's a bit cheaper.
I have been looking at the Prophet 08 is that better in terms of creating analog sounds or easier is what you mean? I like the price drop in the 08 , is it easier to use that one in terms of creating interesting synths?

thanks!

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by GuyaGuy » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:45 am

The Rytm has a free and super-powerful VST called Overbridge which would probably prove super useful to you if you're basing your workflow around a DAW. Check it out.

The 08 is very straightforward. Like I said, I've not played the 12. My point, though, was that the 08 has analog oscillators while the 12 has digital ones and lots of features based around those digital oscillators, like digital FM synthesis, which aren't worth having if you're not going to use them.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:02 am

GuyaGuy wrote:The Rytm has a free and super-powerful VST called Overbridge which would probably prove super useful to you if you're basing your workflow around a DAW. Check it out.

The 08 is very straightforward. Like I said, I've not played the 12. My point, though, was that the 08 has analog oscillators while the 12 has digital ones and lots of features based around those digital oscillators, like digital FM synthesis, which aren't worth having if you're not going to use them.

Thanks alot man...that really helps..i can definitely do more research on my own now.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:45 am

GuyaGuy wrote:The Rytm has a free and super-powerful VST called Overbridge which would probably prove super useful to you if you're basing your workflow around a DAW. Check it out.

The 08 is very straightforward. Like I said, I've not played the 12. My point, though, was that the 08 has analog oscillators while the 12 has digital ones and lots of features based around those digital oscillators, like digital FM synthesis, which aren't worth having if you're not going to use them.
One thing I still cant figure out is, can you create your own Kick/snare/hihat/clap with a drum machine? I want to make raw drum sounds basically. Would the ELektron Rytm be a good fit for something like that?

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:01 am

If there is a cheaper True analog based drum creator where I can create my own original samples from oscillators can anyone guide me on which one to get? I looked at the Roland TR-8 but not sure if that is made to sequence out music on the gear itself. Or am I better off just using high quality drum digital drum kit samples that are available online?

I am used to programming my drums inside my daw which is why I would only want a drummachine to merely create kick/snare/clap/and hi hat samples. hopefully that makes more sense and excuse my lack of knowledge in this area.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by Ashe37 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:59 am

The TR-8 is a virtual analog copy of the 808/909 type drum machine (it also emulates or has samples for a few other Roland drum machines) so yes, it can sequence your drum parts as well as make original (ish) sounds , within a certain range of synthesis.

The other drum machines we've been discussing have deeper synthesis engines with more accessibility, because they aren't trying to sound like 80s drum machines that had firm limits to their synthesis capabilities. The Prophet 12 id a digital/analog hybrid (digital oscillators, analog filters) polyphonic synth, and the Tempest is a six-voice digital/analog hybrid (analog and digital oscillators, analog filters) drum machine that also works as a polysynth. (To hear more of what the Tempest sounds like as a synth, listen to Evolver demos.)

The Rytm is also a 'drum machine that can also play samples, and can also act as a synth'. It just happens to be a different synthesis engine and is new and flexible

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:12 am

The Rytm lets you create your own analogue drum sounds from scratch, and the Overbridge integration means it's great for working with a DAW. If you're just wanting to make samples and use them in your DAW then the Vermona DRM1 mk3 is a great choice as well, it's like an 8 voice analogue synth designed for drum sounds but has no sequencer on board, however it can be triggered easily from a DAW over midi. I've got both the DRM and the Rytm, they're both great analogue drum synths.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:13 pm

Hi stab frenzy,

after doing some research I am almost sold on the DRM1 MkIII that thing sounds amazing! could you describe your experience with that drum synthesizer? I heard the purcussion/snares are really colorful and sound amazing! and the kicks are very deep and beefy depending on how you design them.

The only other option I was thinking of is The TANZBAR but I cant find that anywhere! theres no legitimate pro audio deal that is carrying that one. Would you say the DRM has an upper hand over the Tanzbar?

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:20 am

The DRM is great if you want to seriously sculpt your sounds, it can do a massive range of stuff, but because of the wide range and the lack of patch memory there are some off sounds in there too. It's not like an 808 where the range of the knobs goes from "long 808 kick" to "short 808 kick", it goes from "low rumble you can't hear" to "ultrasonic warbly ping", with everything in between. I like to play it by sending a loop to it over midi and then playing the knobs to bring things in and out and transforming from one sound to another.

The kicks on this are massive, I play live a bit and they are huge on a good PA. It's easy to dial in the right subsonic frequencies to rattle the glasses off the bar shelf. That said the rytm has great kicks too. The snare is great, although I sometimes like to use the insert to add a bit more reverb. It does a great CR78 type woody chunk kind of thing if you dial it in right. The percussion is super flexible.

The Tanzbär looks cool to me but when I played round with one in Schneidersladen it didn't seem that intuitive to use, and a couple of buttons in the (admittedly very well used) shop demo weren't working. It seems like a great drum machine but for me personally for what I wanted it wasn't right. I love how the DRM has everything laid out in front of you logically and nothing is hidden or dual function, but that's just my preference.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:38 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:The DRM is great if you want to seriously sculpt your sounds, it can do a massive range of stuff, but because of the wide range and the lack of patch memory there are some off sounds in there too. It's not like an 808 where the range of the knobs goes from "long 808 kick" to "short 808 kick", it goes from "low rumble you can't hear" to "ultrasonic warbly ping", with everything in between. I like to play it by sending a loop to it over midi and then playing the knobs to bring things in and out and transforming from one sound to another.

The kicks on this are massive, I play live a bit and they are huge on a good PA. It's easy to dial in the right subsonic frequencies to rattle the glasses off the bar shelf. That said the rytm has great kicks too. The snare is great, although I sometimes like to use the insert to add a bit more reverb. It does a great CR78 type woody chunk kind of thing if you dial it in right. The percussion is super flexible.

The Tanzbär looks cool to me but when I played round with one in Schneidersladen it didn't seem that intuitive to use, and a couple of buttons in the (admittedly very well used) shop demo weren't working. It seems like a great drum machine but for me personally for what I wanted it wasn't right. I love how the DRM has everything laid out in front of you logically and nothing is hidden or dual function, but that's just my preference.
I agree I do like the simple layout of the DRM as well it seems like you can get into it right away. Thats really cool that you record two different types of 808 bass in real time. I cant wait to try something like that.

My last question I had was high quality Digital samples that were recorded live compared to DRM drums. What is the advantage to using the DRM over high quality drum kit samples available online?

Correct me if im wrong but what i assumed was the quality might be a bit better using the DRM but it gives you the opportunitiy to create unique drum sounds. Quality wise it sounds like the DRM has a really nice Analog punch to it?Could you briefly compare the usage of digitally produced samples that are ran through API preamps and then sold in a package online compared to the DRM sounds?

Thanks alot man

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:42 am

varun213 wrote:My last question I had was high quality Digital samples that were recorded live compared to DRM drums. What is the advantage to using the DRM over high quality drum kit samples available online?

Correct me if im wrong but what i assumed was the quality might be a bit better using the DRM but it gives you the opportunitiy to create unique drum sounds. Quality wise it sounds like the DRM has a really nice Analog punch to it?Could you briefly compare the usage of digitally produced samples that are ran through API preamps and then sold in a package online compared to the DRM sounds?

Thanks alot man
No worries. :thumbleft:

I don't totally understand your question, it completely depends on the samples. "High quality drum kit samples available online" sound exactly what they sound like. The DRM can be recorded digitally and then it's a high quality digital sample. If something is created digitally and then run through a nice preamp it doesn't make it any more analogue than recording the DRM digitally makes it digital. Digital and analogue are just two words that describe different ways of doing things, they aren't actual characteristics of sound.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:51 am

I guess what im trying to figure out is if there is a noticeable quality upgrade when incorporating drums made from a DRM directly compared to digital drumkits available online? Correct me if im wrong but in your opinion does the DRM give a more deeper and LESSS PLASTIC sound compared to the thin digital samples available online?...I hear the sound from the DRM really gives more color that digital samples cannot match. hopefully thats true!

One last quick question to this discussion,
Do you use 2 line inputs for a stereo? or would you go mono with just one since drums are usually mono i believe?

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:46 am

There are plenty of great sample sets available online, for example: http://www.goldbaby.co.nz Not thin, not plastic.

I think the reason to get the DRM1 is to make your own sounds and because it's fun to tweak. If you just think that having it alone will make things sound better then you might be disappointed, maybe have a bit of a play with some sample sets of the DRM before you shell out the money for it, here's a couple: http://rhythm-lab.com/vermona-drm1-mk3-drum-kit/ http://blog.liveschool.net/vermona-drm1 ... -template/

Regarding stereo, each voice is mono but can be panned in the stereo field so I usually record it stereo.

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Re: Prophet 12 vs Tempest?

Post by varun213 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:56 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:There are plenty of great sample sets available online, for example: http://www.goldbaby.co.nz Not thin, not plastic.

I think the reason to get the DRM1 is to make your own sounds and because it's fun to tweak. If you just think that having it alone will make things sound better then you might be disappointed, maybe have a bit of a play with some sample sets of the DRM before you shell out the money for it, here's a couple: http://rhythm-lab.com/vermona-drm1-mk3-drum-kit/ http://blog.liveschool.net/vermona-drm1 ... -template/

Regarding stereo, each voice is mono but can be panned in the stereo field so I usually record it stereo.
Yea sorry I think plastic wasnt the right word for that. Those are some great samples from the DRM wow! I'm sure ill have a blast creating my own sounds from that . Didnt know you can create you own FX as well? thats awesome!

When you make a long stretched out 808 for example does it map out chromatically so you can play a simple bassline melody via midi keyboard?

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