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Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:26 am
by Ashe37
Except, the 16 bit console sounds you were talking about, are digital... specifically, six-voice four operator FM, in the case of the Genesis; samples and DSP, in the case of the Super Nintendo.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:33 am
by madtheory
NI Komplete (comes with Monark- a Reaktor Ensemble that is the best MiniMoog emulation available, and Kontakt, and FM8 which loads DX series SysEx), and the sample library that was mentioned earlier, and the Chip Sound plugin mentioned earlier, and a SID Station, also mentioned earlier.
ninja6485 wrote:"It's analog and digital and 8 bit with moog bass, with lots of knobs that does Synth bells, with sampling, that sounds like a video game for $600!"
:lol: :lol: :lol: great summary. It appears though, that it is water off a duck's back.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:12 am
by Ncapone
If you use a VST, all of the sounds are digital...

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:43 am
by commodorejohn
The C64 is the only major home game system with an analog or hybrid sound generator anyway. The problem is less that and more that emulation on anything more advanced than the Tandy/Spectrum/Master System PSG can be iffy. Better than it used to be, for sure, but still not perfect.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:30 am
by Ashe37
commodorejohn wrote:The C64 is the only major home game system with an analog or hybrid sound generator anyway. The problem is less that and more that emulation on anything more advanced than the Tandy/Spectrum/Master System PSG can be iffy. Better than it used to be, for sure, but still not perfect.
uh, technically, wasn't the NES as well? and the Atari 2600?

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:49 am
by commodorejohn
Nope, both were straight digital (until you reach the final-stage output DAC, of course.) Some old vector-era arcade games I think may have had analog or hybrid sound (back when the sound effects were implemented via discrete circuits,) but as far as I know the C64 is the only home game system to ever employ even a hybrid sound chip.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:20 pm
by madtheory
Ncapone wrote:If you use a VST, all of the sounds are digital...
Wow I did not know that. So what are your views on modelling?

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:11 am
by Ncapone
OK now I know you're a troll.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:07 am
by ninja6485
Ncapone wrote:OK now I know you're a troll.
madtheory wrote:
Ncapone wrote:If you use a VST, all of the sounds are digital...
Wow I did not know that. So what are your views on modelling?
Uh oh, looks like you've been caught. Punitive measures ensue...
Image

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:26 am
by Ashe37
If you want to get technical, if you digitize it to record it, all the sounds are then digital.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:19 am
by ninja6485
Ashe37 wrote:If you want to get technical, if you digitize it to record it, all the sounds are then digital.
I sometimes think aboit that in reference to some parts of songs I'm working on. If for instance I'm sampling 2 or 4 bar segments of an analog synth or drum machine, it's analog, but it's my digital sampler. If I do a whole song using the sh-101 in my 3000xl, technically all your hearing at the end is the akai. But really, all you're hearing is the 101. Especially if there's no mangling or filtering. Obviously it's no trouble to simply describe the combination, but it makes you think if you have to sit down and classify it as one or the other, since in some respect it's fully both

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:36 pm
by madtheory
Exactly. The point being, digital versus analogue is a false dichotomy. And also a category error.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:13 pm
by commodorejohn
madtheory wrote:Exactly. The point being, digital versus analogue is a false dichotomy. And also a category error.
Um, no it's not. For starters, there are other media to distribute sound on which are purely analog. It is entirely possible to bypass digital conversion/processing entirely.

Also, no matter what you're using for sound transmission/reproduction, analog synthesizers produce sound in an entirely different way than digital ones, and have markedly different characteristics because of that. And yes, a lot of work has gone into mimicking those characteristics in a digital environment, but the distinction has not been (and actually cannot ever be - even a hypothetical perfect emulation is still an emulation) eliminated.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:43 pm
by madtheory
Missing the point. In the context of THIS thread, the OP's needs will be met more than adequately by analogue modelling. Anyone who argues otherwise is, I contend, not really interested in making music, but much more interested in making arguments on the tinterwebs. Exhibit A: the age of this thread and the OP's lack of commitment.

Furthermore the technique of modelling is used in everything from designing loudspeakers to all kinds of electronics including medical gear, to weather forecasting etc. etc... not only analogue synthesizers. So clearly it works. Implementation varies but the technique is sound.

Further furthermore :lol: when it comes out of a DAC, digital IS analogue. It's just that sometimes it's not done according to Nyquist/ Shannon. Now I am arguing on the tinterwebs, avoiding trying out that idea for the drums in one of my new tracks. I'm gonna sample a breakbeat recorded in the seventies on analogue gear, from an MP3 wot I purchased on the tinterwebs.

So see? The distinction in unhelpful.

Re: Synth for 8/16 bit sounds.

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 7:24 pm
by commodorejohn
I'm not saying analog modelling doesn't work (for varying definitions of "work.") I'm saying that calling it a false dichotomy (i.e. a distinction drawn where none exists) is absurd and counter-factual.