Something non fruity

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Something non fruity

Post by BlackGnosis » Sat May 05, 2007 1:35 am

I been working on fruity loops for years, Ive tried a handful of other programs yet I didnt really take the time to learn em, and I been thinking about using another program.

All I want out of it is midi control and multitrack recording, I dont really like soft synths much anymore, the only thing I use fruity for anymore is Vocoding and layering strings and 3x, and on a stretch Sytrus, however I just find hardware synths to be more of what I liked using.

I would prefer PC, dont worry about price... only bugger is it needs to be vista compatable... which i hold no expectations anything is... which is why Im saving up for a new PC to load XP on [are there any linux Studios? preferably Unbuntu or debian based?] and Im not afraid of macs either =)


Things from fruity I would like to see in your reccomended programs are: Step sequencer/Piano roller, multi-band [8+]Vocoder, Drum loop step sequencer, Midi out, and of course decent built in effects, can use VST's and control them well with step sequencers and "motion control"
[prolly every progam for all I know has those...]

Im going to open my mind to all suggestions, download em VIA torrent and if I find one I like Ill go buy it and make it official [cause demos are bleeding limited in use and function]


Thank you for your time.
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Post by Tofuik » Sat May 05, 2007 1:42 am

Give Ableton Live a try. I made the switch over from FL 6 to Live 5.2 a year ago, and I've never looked back. It doesn't have the vocoder but you can run FL as a vst in Live if you want to use the vocoder still.

It has a built in sampler (called simpler) that has plenty of drums and instruments to start off with. And it had build in midi effects and audio effects that I use alot. It also consumes alot less CPU power than Fruityloops.

Sequencing is all piano roll, but there is no groovebox style sequencing like in FL.

For around $350 or so you can get it bundled with something else and save youself some money. Works under Mac and Windows (not sure if its Vista compatible yet.)


Edit// http://www.ableton.com/pages/downloads/demo
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Post by Stab Frenzy » Sat May 05, 2007 4:00 am

Yeah get Live, it's fantastic.

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Post by Shleed » Sat May 05, 2007 2:06 pm

I've tried Live, but I went back to FL. I'm too used to it I guess (using it since version 2)

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Post by OriginalJambo » Sat May 05, 2007 4:53 pm

Shleed wrote:I've tried Live, but I went back to FL. I'm too used to it I guess (using it since version 2)
Agreed. Audio is a bit fiddly in FL, but the sequencer and piano roll are really quick to use for me.

Also I feel that FL handles automation really well and each version just gets better and better - especially with their free upgrade policy. Oh and the included effects are pretty damn good compared to some of the Pro Tools/Logic ones I've found.

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Post by Thefumigator » Sat May 05, 2007 5:23 pm

OriginalJambo wrote:
Shleed wrote:I've tried Live, but I went back to FL. I'm too used to it I guess (using it since version 2)
Agreed. Audio is a bit fiddly in FL, but the sequencer and piano roll are really quick to use for me.

Also I feel that FL handles automation really well and each version just gets better and better - especially with their free upgrade policy. Oh and the included effects are pretty damn good compared to some of the Pro Tools/Logic ones I've found.
FL studio 7 is available with even more improvements in its features :D
Sorry, but I really won't be moving out from FL studio. Notice that I never record external sources (yet)... FL is better for completely build a song using plugins and patterns, automation and piano rolls. Also, the formula controller and those weird stuff are great for experimenting.
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Post by Tofuik » Sat May 05, 2007 6:22 pm

I started in FL with version 4 and loved it. But the Live interface just clicks with me, and my computer couldn't take the power use of FL :lol: .

You're not gonna buy live right away, so just try it and see what happens.

I tried Protools once :? Never gonna do that again hahahah.
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Post by OriginalJambo » Sat May 05, 2007 9:47 pm

Thefumigator wrote:FL studio 7 is available with even more improvements in its features :D
Sorry, but I really won't be moving out from FL studio. Notice that I never record external sources (yet)... FL is better for completely build a song using plugins and patterns, automation and piano rolls. Also, the formula controller and those weird stuff are great for experimenting.
I've got version 7 and it's a decided improvement - Image-line are really good guys for their low prices, clean interface and free upgrades.

Now for software based stuff I cannot fault FL to any point but it really is a bit fiddly working with external audio. You need to go to the mixer, choose a track, choose an input, arm the track, record your thing, you messed up so you need another take, mixer again, arm the track again, you are happy with it, go back and delete the other audio file, normalise the waveform if you have to and assign it to a track on the mixer.

In Logic and Protools you just create a track, choose the input, it creates a channel strip on the mixer automagically for you, you hit record, you don't like that take, you hit record again. That's it - MUCH easier! No rearming of tracks for another take and assigning generators to mixer channels.

Still, once the audio is in it's very quick to manipulate and perform automation with.

As for FL being a CPU hog, I don't know what Live is like but my AMD Athlon XP 1800+ performs pretty well and it's a piece of s**t compared to any new desktop PC today.

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Post by Shleed » Sat May 05, 2007 9:49 pm

Thefumigator wrote:
OriginalJambo wrote:
Shleed wrote:I've tried Live, but I went back to FL. I'm too used to it I guess (using it since version 2)
Agreed. Audio is a bit fiddly in FL, but the sequencer and piano roll are really quick to use for me.

Also I feel that FL handles automation really well and each version just gets better and better - especially with their free upgrade policy. Oh and the included effects are pretty damn good compared to some of the Pro Tools/Logic ones I've found.
FL studio 7 is available with even more improvements in its features :D
Sorry, but I really won't be moving out from FL studio. Notice that I never record external sources (yet)... FL is better for completely build a song using plugins and patterns, automation and piano rolls. Also, the formula controller and those weird stuff are great for experimenting.
Indeed, don't forget the Peak Controller. Bloody ace as a sidechainer ;)

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Post by Thefumigator » Sun May 06, 2007 5:13 am

OriginalJambo wrote:
Thefumigator wrote:FL studio 7 is available with even more improvements in its features :D
Sorry, but I really won't be moving out from FL studio. Notice that I never record external sources (yet)... FL is better for completely build a song using plugins and patterns, automation and piano rolls. Also, the formula controller and those weird stuff are great for experimenting.
I've got version 7 and it's a decided improvement - Image-line are really good guys for their low prices, clean interface and free upgrades.

Now for software based stuff I cannot fault FL to any point but it really is a bit fiddly working with external audio. You need to go to the mixer, choose a track, choose an input, arm the track, record your thing, you messed up so you need another take, mixer again, arm the track again, you are happy with it, go back and delete the other audio file, normalise the waveform if you have to and assign it to a track on the mixer.

In Logic and Protools you just create a track, choose the input, it creates a channel strip on the mixer automagically for you, you hit record, you don't like that take, you hit record again. That's it - MUCH easier! No rearming of tracks for another take and assigning generators to mixer channels.

Still, once the audio is in it's very quick to manipulate and perform automation with.

As for FL being a CPU hog, I don't know what Live is like but my AMD Athlon XP 1800+ performs pretty well and it's a piece of s**t compared to any new desktop PC today.
I never loaded a sample or wav or record on FL studio, really... When I finish the midibox FM synth, well... I will record it and it will be the time of thinking out about live or others.

CPU hog? well, I had my problems with my Athlon XP 1700, when the tune you are composing has many FXs, and vst instruments, then CPU use could reach 100% easely and glitches plagues the sound on realtime hearing. In those times, I just turned off some heavy vst instruments so they don't sound and don't use CPU. Another thing I did once or twice is to record one of the channels to a wav file, then turn off that channel and load the wav instead. Thats what I call artificial freeze of the track, with the only difference that you are freezing a whole channel and also in real time, which may not be the best quality and you have to wait til the track finally ends.

Thats why, later on, I bought an emu 0404 sound card, It has DSP effects onboard, that don't use any CPU resources. My sound blaster live, with the KX drivers also got some nice FXs and someone also wrote a moog like synth for the EMU DSP included in the Sound Blaster, which I tested out and posted the results on here one year ago.

I still haven't got any problem with my Athlon 4200 nor time to compose something to even try the emu 0404 FXs, but it works well with my electric guitar with my only complaint that a preamp is really needed...
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Post by Tofuik » Sun May 06, 2007 8:04 am

Yeah, FL studio would push my 1.7ghz slowpoke to 80% with just its built in instruments, and as soon as it went over 40% it started popping and crackling like popcorn and static.
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Post by OriginalJambo » Sun May 06, 2007 3:22 pm

Thefumigator wrote:I never loaded a sample or wav or record on FL studio, really... When I finish the midibox FM synth, well... I will record it and it will be the time of thinking out about live or others.

CPU hog? well, I had my problems with my Athlon XP 1700, when the tune you are composing has many FXs, and vst instruments, then CPU use could reach 100% easely and glitches plagues the sound on realtime hearing. In those times, I just turned off some heavy vst instruments so they don't sound and don't use CPU. Another thing I did once or twice is to record one of the channels to a wav file, then turn off that channel and load the wav instead. Thats what I call artificial freeze of the track, with the only difference that you are freezing a whole channel and also in real time, which may not be the best quality and you have to wait til the track finally ends.

Thats why, later on, I bought an emu 0404 sound card, It has DSP effects onboard, that don't use any CPU resources. My sound blaster live, with the KX drivers also got some nice FXs and someone also wrote a moog like synth for the EMU DSP included in the Sound Blaster, which I tested out and posted the results on here one year ago.

I still haven't got any problem with my Athlon 4200 nor time to compose something to even try the emu 0404 FXs, but it works well with my electric guitar with my only complaint that a preamp is really needed...
For working with recorded samples FL is still quick - it's just recording stuff in that's a bit of a pain. In other words it's not the best tracker in the world but it's a damn good sequencer.

That's exactly how I got around the same problems with my Althlon XP 1800+, but now I never hit 100% CPU simply because I'm using a lot of hardware now and that is a godsend if you have a slow a*s PC like myself. All I need the CPU for is effects and automation now - piece of piss if you use a lot of sends.

A Creative E-MU 0404? That's the soundcard I have! It's an absolute cracker with its PatchMix DSP and the hardware effects on it are not only useful but also pretty damn good! I wish all audio interfaces came with a really professional package like PatchMix DSP.

Yeah, speaking of pre-amps I've been using my Novation X-Station as my new audio interface simply because it's more portable and has pre-amps. It really does keep help keep signal to noise ratio on a guitar with distortion more acceptable. A DI box would probably improve this further but I can't be bothered shelling out for one right now.

I probably should upgrade my PC pretty soon - I'm down to 512 DDR now that my other 512 Twin Mos just died....

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Post by Bryce1888 » Sun May 06, 2007 4:50 pm

try cubase

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Post by Thefumigator » Tue May 08, 2007 4:02 am

OriginalJambo wrote: A Creative E-MU 0404? That's the soundcard I have! It's an absolute cracker with its PatchMix DSP and the hardware effects on it are not only useful but also pretty damn good! I wish all audio interfaces came with a really professional package like PatchMix DSP.
Yeah, I agree. Also, if you can get an old audigy, or old Sound Blaster live (the ones that are compatible with the KX driver, you can get most for only 10$)
You could get a nice DSP panel too:

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Just remember that the KX driver will also detect your emu 0404, you have to tell it during installation that it should use the 10k1 sound card detected, instead of the emu 0404 (which got a 10k2 chip or sort of)
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Post by Huppo » Wed May 09, 2007 12:25 pm

I found myself in a slightly similar situation to yours a couple years back. I have been a happy FLS user for a long time but wasn't doing much in the way or recording audio (direct or otherwise) so I didn't feel like there was anything missing.

When I went looking for something to add in multitrack audio I stopped off at N-Track, which was ambitious and cheap but seemed buggy as h**l with terrible CPU usage. From there I looked to Mackie's Tracktion and liked it right away. Version 3 has just come out.

I'm using Version 2 of Tracktion, ReWiring in FLS when I want some of the features I'm comfortable with. I can get 20+ tracks of audio and a bunch of softsynths running on a 1.7Ghz AMD AThlon with 512M without it barfing.

If you're looking to move into a DAW, give Tracktion a look. It's less expensive than the otherss, too.
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