Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

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MitchK1989
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Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

Post by MitchK1989 » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:21 pm

http://www.112db.com/

Looks pretty interesting. I can't try it out at the moment as I sold my iMac and my new Macbook Pro hasn't arrived yet... But the demo songs sound pretty kickass!

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mono/noise
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Post by mono/noise » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:10 pm

I cant agree on the demo's, they mostly sound very bad to me.....well at least musically.
Some of the sounds are ok but the last demo for example is like a exercise in cramming in as many jazz chords you can while managing to keep it totally free of any groove.

But I do like the whole idea behind it so I'm gonna try the demo version out.
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meatballfulton
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Post by meatballfulton » Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:09 am

I personally think it's stupid. I can lower the sampling frequency and bit depth on my 21st century sampler, make short loops and muchkinize my mutisamples if I want just fine.

What's so musical about older samplers?
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Post by MitchK1989 » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:32 am

meatballfulton wrote:I personally think it's stupid. I can lower the sampling frequency and bit depth on my 21st century sampler, make short loops and muchkinize my mutisamples if I want just fine.

What's so musical about older samplers?
I just like how crunchy it seems to sound... It doesn't sound the same to me as using a modern sampler in the way you describe... part of it would be the emulation of the mic pre distortion and part of it would be the emulation of digital crosstalk and such... Another part is probably the specific way in which it downsamples, rather than straight bitcrushing and sample rate decimation... Analog modelled filters probably help too.

I don't know yet if I'd use it enough for justify $200... But I'm seriously considering it.

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Post by meatballfulton » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:58 pm

"Vintage microprocessor emulation including modulator quantizing and digital crosstalk"

Digital crosstalk? Great,deliberately inject some hash noise in the signal, that makes it more musical.

I should just quit my engineering career :?
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

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Post by MitchK1989 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:19 pm

meatballfulton wrote:"Vintage microprocessor emulation including modulator quantizing and digital crosstalk"

Digital crosstalk? Great,deliberately inject some hash noise in the signal, that makes it more musical.

I should just quit my engineering career :?
I think you should try the demo instead of attacking it based on the product description :wink:

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Re: Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:37 pm

So I was excited about this -- looking forward to popping some Fairlight or Emulator samples into this for a more accurate emulation than a modern sampler would provide. But the effect even without the mic preamp is incredibly distorted and not very usable. What do others think?

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colmon
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Re: Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

Post by colmon » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:44 pm

isn't this plug supposed to be an emulation of the ensoniq mirage (hence morgana as in "fata morgana")? so not terribly accurate at emulating a fairlight or eii, i shouldn't think

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Re: Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

Post by colmon » Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:53 pm

what's the rest of the 112db stuff like btw? quite like the look of their preamp sim and eq

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Re: Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

Post by Naive Teen Idol » Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:30 am

colmon wrote:isn't this plug supposed to be an emulation of the ensoniq mirage (hence morgana as in "fata morgana")? so not terribly accurate at emulating a fairlight or eii, i shouldn't think
Yea, but iirc, the Mirage didn't mangle every sample you loaded into it, did it?

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Re: Morgana Vintage Sampler Plugin...

Post by Boba JFET » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:46 pm

Hello, I thought I might be able to offer up some insight on this plugin, seeing as how I helped create it. :)

Morgana is a Mirage emulation. We did go to great lengths to attempt to model the sound of the Mirage. For example, if you use a high "peak" value for the envelopes, you have a reasonably smooth envelope resolution, but if you turn the peak value down, the resolution of the envelope decreases and you can clearly hear steps. This is just like the Mirage. We did a lot of testing and data acquisition to model the nonlinear distortion of the mic preamp, which can get pretty dirty on the Mirage especially if you set it to Mic level and send it a line level source. I admit, one of the problems with this is that the mic pre doesn't actually occur in the right place in the signal chain, nor does the antialias filter. We had differing opinions about this, I wanted these settings to preprocess the sample as it is loaded into RAM, dj! thought it should be a dynamic behavior and there wasn't any way to make it efficient with 100% signal flow so we compromised, since it is actually very easy to resample anyway.

One of the aspects of Morgana which I think is the best is the interpolation - or lack thereof. Morgana uses a nearest neighbor routine to transpose samples, so it sounds very gritty when pitch shifting. It's actually a little cleaner than the Mirage in this regard since the Mirage always transposed samples, the root pitch was something like f#+23 cents. We thought that was pretty arcane so we added the ability to set a root note.

It's also one of the only samplers out there that samples - and actually has a number of unique capabilities in how it can sample. The VSTi has its own inputs, but you can also capture audio from a utility VST which can be an insert on any track, and I think even on a track in a different host running on the same computer. You can resample live, so there are a lot of very useful applications for this.

One of the things we learned from Morgana is that it can be very difficult to model primitive digital electronics in a modern software environment, and the market for a higher-end VST that models a lower-end sampler is somewhat limited. That's probably why dj! chose to go for more traditional plugins (the redline series) afterward. Morgana wasn't perfect, but it is as far as I know still unique in terms of being a comprehensive emulation of a vintage sampler.

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