Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by hyphen nation » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:07 am

yeah, loosing the fire wire 400 is ridiculous...it has become a standard...that was just stupid marketing...

So, how do you get around that, for all of us w/ firewire 400 ad/da converters, harddrives, etc?

this is beyond lame...and yeah, I have been a mac only person since '95, but between my iphone having some of the worst reception on the planet, and forced obsolescence, I will have to think long and hard on my next machine purchase [some time next year]

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by SickMonkey » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:24 am

I can't say I'm surprised at the firewire port being dropped. Aside from us music producing types, basically nobody seems to use it anyway. External USB(2) hard disks must outnumber their firewire counterparts by at least 20 to 1*.

And of course, since the FW in the (non-pro) macbooks was kinda dodgy anyway (due to them using the crappy agere chipset), I don't really care about it disappearing.

Now, about the new design. I'm still ambivalent. A single-block of aluminium is nice, but why the black keyboard and frame?


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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by Spadz » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:56 pm

Design wise, it's nice. But it's still in the same line as the older ones.
As for the 400FW, I didn't know it using the 800 one.

It's true that FW is falling of the earth, being pushed by USB2. But USB2 doesn't have the sustained rate that FW does. It's all a question of ownerships. If Apple, Sony and Yamaha would have "given" it instead of selling it, it would have taken the market much more. Intel gave USB for free. So here is the result...

Are there any really good USB2 options for recording? M-Audio put on on the market which has 8 ins/outs, but how stable and efficient is it? I did not find much comments on the net. What about latency... It's all question related to us, as recording musicians. Mr and Mrs oridnary, don't give a rats a*s about FW.

At least, when removing the FW port, they could have had the decency to had 1 or 2 usb2 ports...
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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by D-Collector » Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:25 pm

Personally, I'm not too impressed with Mac. My neighbour runs a professional music studio and I help him out from time to time, but his studio Mac Pro crashes all the time. Very frustrating when everything just freeze up. But then I'm no expert with Mac in general. Just saying.

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by meatballfulton » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:46 pm

No Firewire is probably just fine for 99% of all MacBook buyers...musicians are probably only 1%. As long as they keep FW on the iMac and the MacPro towers that should satisfy most folks.

It is a drag though, I was thinking about buying a MacBook to replace my much hated Wintel laptop. Now I'll have to rethink things.
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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by guesswho » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:59 pm

SickMonkey wrote:I can't say I'm surprised at the firewire port being dropped. Aside from us music producing types, basically nobody seems to use it anyway.
meatballfulton wrote:No Firewire is probably just fine for 99% of all MacBook buyers...musicians are probably only 1%.
Two birds with one stone: A lot of video cameras use firewire (or iLink) and interface to iMovie or FCP this way.
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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by RobotHeroes » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:29 pm

guesswho wrote:Two birds with one stone: A lot of video cameras use firewire (or iLink) and interface to iMovie or FCP this way.
Yeah. I don't own a camera but the other day I went looking for a 4-pin to 6-pin firewire cable and the salesperson referred to them as a video camera cable. I am assuming most digital video camera's use firewire to transfer video? Do some camera's offer usb transfer?

Apple is basically forcing you to move up and it's not like they offer it as an add-on which it should already be there anyway. It's like the blu-ray thing. You know they don't want to add a blu-ray drive because they want you to buy video from itunes instead.

They are clenching their grasp. Has Apple ever given customers different choices? Or has it always been just 3 of each and no configuration options?
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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by vintagesynth » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:47 pm

I don't understand this bitching...

MacBook's are a CONSUMER product, targeting kids in school for the most part. These buyers don't need firewire of any sort.

Even w/o firewire 400, USB 2.0 is in certain situations faster than firewrie 400. Almost all firewire drives now also have USB 2.0 ports. USB 2.0 is an industry standard for all peripherals and hard drives.

Finally, Firewire 400 is antique, and Firewire 800 is current, but soon to be replaced by eSATA. On the MacBook Pro, where a firewire port is needed, going with just Firewire 800 is fine. 400 needs to go. For older drives with 400 ports only, there's plenty of 800 to 400 cables out there.

My only gripe about the Pro is it needs two firewire ports. Everything else about these two awesome products is just fine, considering they are portable lap tops and NOT desktops. If you want lot of I/O options and high end professional features, buy a desktop. Laptops are not designed to replace desktops, they are designed to be portable but offer comparable performance to your desktop at home or in the office.
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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by redroomrecordings » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:06 am

i'm not concerned with the new macbooks...im happy with my current black macbook from last year and extra happy with my brand new custom mac pro tower w/ 30" display! :) :) :)

sorry....this post was just to get out my excitement...just got it in today.

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by guesswho » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:10 am

vintagesynth wrote: Even w/o firewire 400, USB 2.0 is in certain situations faster than firewrie 400. Almost all firewire drives now also have USB 2.0 ports. USB 2.0 is an industry standard for all peripherals and hard drives.
You may be the big cheese here, but I have to tell how wrong you are on this. If I've said it once, I've said it a million times - USB 2.0 maybe 480mbps but it NEVER travels at that speed, EVER! You are lucky to see it travel at even half that speed... where as firewire, regardless if it is 400 or 800 always travels at it's rated speed - at ALL times. USB 2.0 may look good on paper, but put it to use against firewire 400 and it will get out performed ever time.

For shits and giggles, if you have one of those Lacie USB/Firewire external drives (any brand will do, really - as long as you have both), do a back up or some sort of transfer, once using the USB 2.0 port and then a second time with the firewire port. Then tell me I'm wrong on this and I'll drop it, not only from VSE, but from every other forum I am a member of and have had this argument already at.

**edit**
for the doubters:
http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm
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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by Alex Hamilton » Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:39 pm

I think it's a bit odd - it's actually not just musicians that use Firewire, it wasn't invented for us in the first place. There's lots of technical equipment in my lab that interfaces with computers - I can't give you any examples as I don't know what the interfaces are (presumably either Firewire or USB) and I haven't checked - that clearly requires the presence of appropriate ports. While desktops are more common for interfacing, even without musicians wanting to run Firewire audio interfaces, there are actually quite a few people still relying on Firewire ports, as the equipment running off it is far from redundant. But then, Apple have always marketed in the 'Look, it has a shiny new screen!' manner, rather than the computers' true capabilities - which are usually pretty good AFAIK.

And USB2 vs Firewire? I think I've heard that USB2 has enough bandwidth to send about a hundred audio channels simultaneously, though I can't be sure. I've never encountered problems with my MOTU828mkii in that respect at all.

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:25 am

vintagesynth wrote:I don't understand this bitching...

MacBook's are a CONSUMER product, targeting kids in school for the most part. These buyers don't need firewire of any sort.
This is true, but since they ditched the small models of the Pro line the Macbook has been the only option for people who want something smaller than the 15" Pro. I need a small machine for location recording, DJing and playing live shows. I need firewire for all of these things.

If they brought out a Macbook Pro in a 13" or smaller size, with Firewire 800, I'd buy it. I'm reluctant to buy a 15" machine for these kinds of things, in fact I'm thinking of buying a (gasp) compact windows laptop and giving it a clean install with just Live and maybe Tracktion on it, no internet access, for doing stuff out of the studio and getting an iMac for the studio.

Also, Apple bought Emagic so they could give Garageband away with all Macs sold to get kids in school and college who were into music a starter program that would lead to them buying Logic, either Express or Pro. In Apple stores if you buy a Macbook and they find out you're interested in music they try to get you to buy a copy of Logic Express and an Apogee Duet. They even did that strategic partnership with Apogee to get the integration of the Duet and Ensemble with Logic really tight. Now they've lost the opportunity to upsell all those music-interested consumers who buy a Macbook a copy of Logic and a Duet, and alienated a lot of Pro users as well.

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by RobotHeroes » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:40 am

Stab Frenzy wrote:Now they've lost the opportunity to upsell all those music-interested consumers who buy a Macbook a copy of Logic and a Duet, and alienated a lot of Pro users as well.
When I was looking at audio interfaces I was looking at the Apogee duet. I wish it had more inputs but the quality behind the name, and the price, was like this is the one to start out on. Then I find out it's Mac only. Burned. I won't buy an old Macbook because it's price didn't go down much and something new has replaced it. And I won't get a new one because it doesn't have firewire and needs more power. I wouldn't get a pro just for firewire. Pfff.

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by SickMonkey » Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:34 am

RobotHeroes wrote:
guesswho wrote:Two birds with one stone: A lot of video cameras use firewire (or iLink) and interface to iMovie or FCP this way.
Yeah. I don't own a camera but the other day I went looking for a 4-pin to 6-pin firewire cable and the salesperson referred to them as a video camera cable. I am assuming most digital video camera's use firewire to transfer video? Do some camera's offer usb transfer?
AFAIK, the vast majority of current/recent consumer level video cameras use USB2. Though of course, there are lots and lots of older FW-using cameras out there.

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Re: Allow me to be the first to b***h about the new Macbooks

Post by xpander » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:24 am

firewire is dead, eh? time to finally upgrade my dvx100 to one of these mofos:

Image

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