Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

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masstronaut
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by masstronaut » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:13 pm

No not necessarily. Not sure what you're asking actually.

But in those two examples the plugin versions are TTBOMK running literally the same code. In terms of the sound generation there is minimal translation or re-engineering going on. So it demonstrates that in principle there is no difference, soundwise, other than in the digital to analogue conversion.

As I say, this probably doesn't happen in such an 'ideal' way very often.

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by JSRockit » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:37 pm

They might be the same, but I'd always pick a VA over a plugin. I'm dedicated to dedication.
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by oryjen » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:45 pm

Yes they are.
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by mwbassguy » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:47 pm

From now on, I'm calling VAs and digital hardware synths "firmsynths."
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by masstronaut » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:00 am

I think it could catch on.

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by stephen » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:18 am

Or how about "synthware" :D
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by pricklyrobot » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:06 am

I like firmesizers.
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by pflosi » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:08 am

and what about stuff like the receptor? :)

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:17 am

The Receptor is piece of hardware. The synths that run on it are software.

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by masstronaut » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:28 pm

So that would be semi-hard then?

I guess that's why they don't call it Penetrator.

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by pflosi » Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:43 pm

:lol:

OT:
so... there are:

VSTs (AUs)
hardware that runs software (hardware plugin host)
VAs ("fake analog")
Digital Synths (mostly FM)

(not counting samplers / romplers etc)

???????????

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by meatballfulton » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:14 pm

Cycom wrote:Paid $1999 for a brand new, EOL Mac Pro 8-core. A h**l of a lot less than a new Virus Ti. Thanks for trying, though.
Plus monitor, audio interface, keyboard controller (add $500-1000) plus cost of softsynth ($200 and up for the ones you mentioned). Now pack it up to go to your next gig #-o

BTW Virus TI desktop (knobs but no keys) is only $2100 street.

Digital synthesizers are far more than a software program running on a general purpose CPU. Otherwise, they would have nothing inside but a general purpose and a crapload of RAM 8) And they'd be a lot cheaper too, go price out the SM V-Machine compared to any VA.

DISCLAIMER: I use softsynths as well as hardware (including VA) and I design computer hardware for a living.
Last edited by meatballfulton on Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by meatballfulton » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:35 pm

Virus TDM is a bad example to use.

It doesn't run on the computer's CPU, it runs on the DSP chips of the Digidesign hardware and the number of instances you can run is dependent on how many DSPs you have...16 voices/8 timbres per DSP according to Access, much less than what Virus hardware has been capable of for years.

Price of Virus TDM software: $800 street

Price of Virus Snow: $1250 street

Hmmm.....

Now, let's discuss why Access hasn't come out with a Virus VST or AU yet. You could be cynical and say they are afraid of torpedoing their hardware business or you could consider that it's not yet possible to do so.
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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by 23 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:19 pm

vin14 wrote:Is the Keyboard/Module just a dedicated computer and set of controls for an albeit top notch soft synth? If so, does this apply to other virtual analogs too?
The answer to this question is YES, it's a soft synth.
Further, the vast majority of synths, samplers, and drum machines have been nothing but firmware (software housed in dedicated controller) since about the mid 80s.
Whether or not this bothers you is up to you.
Soft synths were little more then the next logical progression from the Rack unit. Lose out on dedicated DSPs and such, bring control surface to a complete zero stand point, make the user handle their own DAC affairs, provide only the actual heart of what is making things tick coupled with a GUI, pass the significant savings on to the end user.

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Re: Are virtual analogs just soft synths with their own...

Post by masstronaut » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:41 am

meatballfulton wrote:Virus TDM is a bad example to use.

It doesn't run on the computer's CPU, it runs on the DSP chips of the Digidesign hardware and the number of instances you can run is dependent on how many DSPs you have...16 voices/8 timbres per DSP according to Access, much less than what Virus hardware has been capable of for years.

Price of Virus TDM software: $800 street

Price of Virus Snow: $1250 street

Hmmm.....

Now, let's discuss why Access hasn't come out with a Virus VST or AU yet. You could be cynical and say they are afraid of torpedoing their hardware business or you could consider that it's not yet possible to do so.
It's not a good example of what and in what sense? What do you think the discussion is?

And how the heck is number instances / voices relevant to anything?

It's a good example in that it demonstrates the principle that a VA is a software synth as it is software that is exactly the same as the hardware version. I know that's a trivial demonstration but there you go.

For Access I'd say doing it that way made sense for at least three reasons - it was a relatively straightforward port as it runs on the same types of DSP chip, yes they can keep the price up, and piracy is not a problem. It's not made any longer anyway (is it?) but in principle it could be ported to an other type of CPU / DSP, look up Turing Machines etc. for mathematical proof of this. ;) As long as a processing device fulfils a few very simple criteria any algorithm can be made to run on it. And if you look at the processing power of modern CPUs they are quite capable of outperforming most mass market DSPs, including the ones used in the latest generation digital synths.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for proper instruments but software is software. Or er, firmware. :)

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