Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by masstronaut » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:05 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:Still, though... that doesn't address the bizarre situation where you'd have to contact a company to find out if they had decided it was legal to sell their product second hand after using it.
...
That is to say that if you buy it, use it, and hate it... you will NEVER get any recompense. You have literally invested in nothing.
Except that in many cases you can resell the license. And whether you can or not will be part of the terms of sale and detailed in a user agreement so you can find out before you buy. If someone doesn't agree to those terms they don't have to buy.

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by masstronaut » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:15 pm

nvbrkr wrote:Nebertheless, the pricing policies have remained the same, which simply just means that people are still as motivated as ever to illegally copy the products.
The problem with piracy is that too many people have trouble shaking the attitude that because something can be copied and obtained for free then why not do it. This makes operating a software production company very difficult without taking measures to prevent this.

Really good software costs money to develop, maintain and market, it really does. It takes skills and time. It would be great if the free software community could come up with equivalent stuff, and much of it is very good for what it is, but there's a reason people pay for commercial products.

I actually can't think of much music software that is hugely overpriced. Maybe stuff like Waves plugins a few years ago, but they have loads of competition now.

And as griffin says you can get a h**l of a lot with many 'LE' versions, which often come bundled with bits of hardware. What more do you need? The sense of entitlement is ridiculous. I mean that's all well and good but there are people in offices slogging away making that software you know and I'm sure they'd like to get everything they want for free as well.

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by midi2 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:32 pm

well i was thinking to buy a used software i found and what's wrong about it if it is protected with usb dongle?I mean by the time i have it in my hands no one else can use it anymore except me.Maybe companies don't like the idea that someone can obtain this licence at a lower price because it actually isn't someting psysical that loses its value after some years like hardware synths.Maybe that's the point...I should ask the company now and I'll do it

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by griffin avid » Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:43 pm

I do like to have a laugh every now and then at how way-off many of the VAs actually sound from the units they're supposed to emulate...

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by Solderman » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:27 pm

My biggest pet-peeve about buying software is on the not-so often but significant occasions that you pay perfectly good money for something that doesn't work well and/or not as advertised.

For instance, I've yet to see a version of NI Absynth or Reaktor that was stable for prolonged periods on PC or Mac.

Most current example for me: I have a dual-core PC with 2GB of memory, and purchased Synthogy Ivory by mail-order, forcing me to wait a week for it, even though I could have downloaded the entire torrent for the 5 DVD disc images in 1 day and paid nothing. Then I had to register the dongle key.

Then here's the FIRST infuriating part: I start the installation and get to the final disc, and it has a CRC error. Installation cannot continue. Instead of taking it back and waiting 2 weeks for a replacement that could have the same error, I download the disc image from the torrent and finish installation. The images have an integrity check once installed, and it passes.

Now the second infuriating part: Even though my PC meets the optimal requirements on the side of the box,(2GB memory, fast CPU, 7200 rpm HDD) the software cuts out with I/O errors after playing for 3 or 4 minutes. I read online to enable the /3GB option in the boot.ini to fix it, and this just gives me an extra 5 minutes of playing time before it f**k up. I can't take it back because they will say it's a hardware resources problem. So I paid $300 for a piece of s**t that sounds nice for 10 minutes before I have to reboot.

In relation to this, I bought Synthogy Ivory because I needed a good piano, and was tired of Gigasampler wreaking havoc on my computer. Don't even get me started about bad purchases with that wretched excuse for code.

I guess the other big one is all the bugs in Cubase over the years that their customers have had to deal with, and some never get fixed. Anyone remember what Cubase 5 was like on the PC in 2001? To this day, I'm convinced Steinberg invented the VST platform so they could license it to pay for all the product returns. I realise they finally improved timing after years of crappy PC versions, and I'm sure the folks at Cakewalk and Logic were grateful for Steinberg's poor job, but why would one generally want to pay good money for such piss-poor quality?
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by CS_TBL » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:18 am

Well, the solution to all that would be: use warez for a while, to check whether everything works fine. If it does: order the license. if it doesn't work well, you probably don't see a point in working with it and you'll kick it out to make place for something that does work, no harm done to anyone. It's what the warez providers call 'try before buy'. Maybe not the way it should be, but a faulty application like that is often a bad advertisement for any other software you may buy, so rather minimize the risk.

'Shareware' I hear? Demo? Not with these large libraries I figure.. :P

It's true that some software manufacturers should definitely hire new programmers, or mayhaps totally change their code core, start from scratch. Most stuff I work with works quite well though.. then again I don't use much anyway.
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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by masstronaut » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:21 am

There's lots going on in computers, lots of bits that have to work well together, lots of variables - not easy to make sophisticated software that will work well in all situations. Helps to have your system well set up.

Dongles suck.

Cubase has been really very stable for ages. 2001 is very long time ago in DAW terms.

Do developers have to pay to use VST? I didn't think so...

Hardware instruments have bugs too.

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by Ghost of Crow » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:27 am

Do what the f**k you want. Its your conscience.
Arrr me heartys. Pirate Bay be just round corner.

I hate speaking like a f**k pirate.

I thought that art was art for arts sake. By the people for the people.
Course that was in simpler times when one could make a fortune, or a few ham rolls, touring the country talking Shakespeares bollocks.
get somethimg else tae dae yah lazy manky filthy hippy singing lute playing cunts. Away and dig some coal.
Clean coal!
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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:38 am

masstronaut wrote:Except that in many cases you can resell the license. And whether you can or not will be part of the terms of sale and detailed in a user agreement so you can find out before you buy. If someone doesn't agree to those terms they don't have to buy.
Fair enough!
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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:42 am

masstronaut wrote:Really good software costs money to develop, maintain and market, it really does. It takes skills and time. It would be great if the free software community could come up with equivalent stuff, and much of it is very good for what it is, but there's a reason people pay for commercial products.
You'll get no argument from me. I work at a software company which generates relatively basic software, and I can't believe how much effort goes into it. It's really shocking. High end software is worth the money they charge. It may be made of information, but it doesn't change the amount of work, planning, talent, and skill which goes into it.
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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by Yatmandu » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:21 am

I heard that our jails are filled with people who bought used soft synths :o :shock:

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by nvbrkr » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:42 pm

griffin avid wrote:I do like to have a laugh every now and then at how way-off many of the VAs actually sound from the units they're supposed to emulate...

Inevitable.
Probably.

I have nothing against digital synthesis. I have problem when companies make claims about their emulations being able to capture the sound of the originals perfectly, when in fact they do not. Selling them for price tags that exceed 200 does rile me up personally. A Minimoog clone that doesn't sound like a Minimoog shouldn't be sold at a higher price than your average computer game.

I'd say the worst offender recently that I've ran into is IK Multimedia's Sampletron. They make the following claim on their website: "Chromatic samples capture the complete, authentic tone of each instrument". Now, I've only installed the demo myself, but it seems to be that they haven't sampled all the notes from the original Mellotron tapes as there's plenty of pitchshifting going on there (most of the presets us 2-4 samples per octave). People who have used the full software will say the same about the actual product. This entirely goes against the whole idea of using Mellotron samples in the first place, so you'll just have to wonder why in the h**l have they chosen to do such a thing. Taken literally, "chromatic" doesn't necessarily mean "each key separately" of course, but at least "complete" and "authentic" nevertheless imply that very effectively. How on Earth can they keep on making these claims and legally use it as a part of their marketing? How is it worse getting the software cracked then?

I'd say ca. 200 is too much for software of such kind, when there are also plenty of free alternatives that do the same and there are free full Mellotron sample banks around too.

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by CS_TBL » Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:57 am

I see little point in emulating older synths with today's technology anyway. Just make new synths, and be done with it. No-one complaining about all the tonal differences, and you can add tons more parameters to tweak without breaking some archaic design. 8 :lol:

We build new cars too, don't we? We don't replicate a T-Ford upon which old timer fanatics go complain how it doesn't match a real T-Ford.
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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by xpander » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:18 am

what any company says does not constitute law, even if it's written by lawyers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine

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Re: Is it legal to buy used soft synths?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:32 am

CS_TBL wrote:I see little point in emulating older synths with today's technology anyway. Just make new synths, and be done with it.
Amen.


xpander wrote:what any company says does not constitute law, even if it's written by lawyers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine
Amen again.
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