Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

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Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by griffin avid » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:01 pm

Saw this article and it made me think of how my software collection has been....aging and some stuffs rendered useless...
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http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... es/409387/
When Amazon Dies

What will happen to digital collections of books, movies, and music when the tech giants fall?


This quote here:
All this signals a larger cultural shift in the way people think about ownership of media in the 21st century, or how they ought to be thinking of it. Increasingly, the purchase of digital works is treated like the purchase of software, which has gone from something you buy on a disc to something downloadable with an Internet connection. “You might think you’re buying Microsoft Office, but according to your user agreement you’re merely leasing it,” Vaidhyanathan said...
That convergence is built for a streaming world, one that’s driven by an expectation of instant gratification. “One of the things we’re doing increasingly is opting for convenience over dependability. And we’re doing it somewhat thoughtlessly,” Vaidhyanathan told me. “We have to recognize that it is temporary. Anything that is centrally collected in a server somewhere on Earth is ephemeral.



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Usually, it's long after the "I use this, for real" date, but there are a few bits that I would have installed if the developer/company was still in business and doing updates....

And there's one or two must-haves that I kept the install files and dump them in my X-version of Windows programs folder to work since they can't actually install anymore....
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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:04 pm

This is why i still have Lightwave 5.6 and 7 installed alongside my 11.5 install, and I still have the parallel port hardware key attached.

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:02 am

Worse than the developer going out of business is when an upgrade removes part of a program, case in point Waveburner from Apple. Was part of Logic Pro (7 or 8 I think, can't remember) and was the best CD authoring software on Mac in my opinion, to the point where I bought Logic Pro just for Waveburner even though I can't stand Logic. The next upgrade Waveburner disappeared off the face of the earth, and now you can't buy it for love or money. I spent hundreds just trying to find something to replace it with that worked almost as well. :(

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by gmeredith » Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:18 am

Or like when an already installed program requires that it goes online periodically to check authentication before it will run - what happens if the company goes belly up or changes hands and the web connection link is down or changes? You can't use it, even though you paid for it.
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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by meatballfulton » Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:33 am

This is why I still buy CDs and still use a workstation...I'm operational even if something happens to the computer, the network, the cloud, my service provider, etc.
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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by tomorrowstops » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:11 pm

I signed up with Apple Music a few months ago. I've added probably about 100 albums to my cloud collection since. What if Apple decides to change its content (based on various artist license agreements)? All of a sudden 20 albums disappear from my collection. Will I need to purchase a download/cd/vinyl? Ugh. I suppose I could go make all 100 albums available offline. And then use some sketchy software to convert the protected file type to normal wavs. Then I would own 'hard' copies.

Nope, the way I'm rationalizing that is I'm paying $10 a month to easily look up and seamlessly stream music between all my devices. If an album I've added to my collection disappears from Apple Music AND I really need to own it (let's face it, I don't need EVERY single Morricone score. Or do I?) Then I'll find a copy on vinyl/cd/download/whatever and buy it.

Then, there's instrument plugins.

'If I allow myself to get attached to instrument x, what will I do when it changes or disappears?'

Well, I have yet to get attached to any software instrument. Ironically enough (for one who likes to think of instruments as more than just tools) I treat software instruments just as that; tools. They quickly and efficiently demo ideas for me. They sound ok enough to live with during that process, in part because I know I'm replacing them with the real thing. 95% of the software instruments I use are the ones that come with Logic X. This program seems to have an affinity for having lots of instruments, and if those instruments change, they'll be even better. I have one third party synth, and 2 third party effects. All three were super cheap and by the time they stop working, easily replaced with probably something even better!

Since I'm on a Mac and using Apple software, my DAW should be fine. I doubt they'll pull Logic from operation, and again, if they do, they'll have most likely replaced it with something better. I'm choosing somewhat carefully what invest in, and ultimately deciding to buy less as a result.

If anything, what we seem to have a problem with is the concept of re-buying something we already had. Enter the subscription-based purchasing model. It costs my wife $11 a month to maintain her Photoshop software. All updates and changes are free as long as that payment is made. PT12 is subscription based, East West instruments are now, etc. Its a tiny monthly maint. expense. I don't have to worry about coming up with $400~ for the next update.

We need to shift our thinking. A piece of hardware is finite. Its a finished product as soon as its available for sale (unless we're talking something that runs on software!) Unless something breaks, it doesn't need any more $$ put into it. Software is never 'finished.' The beauty of this open-ended concept is that it can always be improved upon and tailored to meet the needs of today. This costs developers time and money to ultimately satisfy the end-user.

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by Ashe37 » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:32 pm

tomorrowstops wrote: Since I'm on a Mac and using Apple software, my DAW should be fine. I doubt they'll pull Logic from operation, and again, if they do, they'll have most likely replaced it with something better. I'm choosing somewhat carefully what invest in, and ultimately deciding to buy less as a result.
Just a point, but I personally know Shake users that thought this, too.

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by griffin avid » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:33 pm

We need to shift our thinking. A piece of hardware is finite. Its a finished product as soon as its available for sale (unless we're talking something that runs on software!) Unless something breaks, it doesn't need any more $$ put into it. Software is never 'finished.' The beauty of this open-ended concept is that it can always be improved upon and tailored to meet the needs of today. This costs developers time and money to ultimately satisfy the end-user.

Except Logic used to be on PC too- not any more....
And hardware also gets O.S. updates...matter of fact, you can check this forum in the hardware synth section and hear about how much stuff was released that was buggy.

The developers/manufacturers eat that cost from sales in total, unlike software which gets a looser scrutiny because updates are so easy and even expected....

Apple is GREAT with this. Their hardware was released crippled (phones that COULD take video but didn't until jail broken) and software updates fix one thing and break another. DAWs aren't always adding new features; lots of times, they are stripping away features...
So ultimately no, the customer isn't always satisfied.

iTunes isn't Spotify and I am NOT paying for a STREAMING service. I bought that album, in a digital format.
Same with my Amazon video library. I own my digital copy. If they lose their license to SELL it, it shouldn't impact my ability to own it. That's the part that's scary.
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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by commodorejohn » Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:44 pm

meatballfulton wrote:This is why I still buy CDs and still use a workstation...I'm operational even if something happens to the computer, the network, the cloud, my service provider, etc.
^ This. I enjoy fiddling around with VSTs and they're great for things that I can't convincingly synthesize on my hardware and can't afford to just buy (or just don't know how to play,) but especially with the kind of licensing shenanigans that modern developers like to pull, it'd be foolish to think that they're in any way permanent.
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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by tomorrowstops » Sat Oct 10, 2015 1:41 pm

griffin avid wrote:
Except Logic used to be on PC too- not any more....
And hardware also gets O.S. updates...matter of fact, you can check this forum in the hardware synth section and hear about how much stuff was released that was buggy.

The developers/manufacturers eat that cost from sales in total, unlike software which gets a looser scrutiny because updates are so easy and even expected....

Apple is GREAT with this. Their hardware was released crippled (phones that COULD take video but didn't until jail broken) and software updates fix one thing and break another. DAWs aren't always adding new features; lots of times, they are stripping away features...
So ultimately no, the customer isn't always satisfied.

iTunes isn't Spotify and I am NOT paying for a STREAMING service. I bought that album, in a digital format.
Same with my Amazon video library. I own my digital copy. If they lose their license to SELL it, it shouldn't impact my ability to own it. That's the part that's scary.
Oh I know, the Apple machine certainly isn't looking out for our best interest. Corporations don't maintain over 50% of the market share by giving us what we want. They just convince us what they want is what we want.

I can't recall updating a DAW and losing features that I use. If that has happened, obviously I've forgotten and those features are no longer important to me.

Sure, we get used to things and when they change, it can be annoying. I'm choosing to embrace the never ending changes and developing skillsets that allow me to quickly recover and move forward. Part of that is not just blindly adding endless amounts of software from a million different developers to my machines. My home studio world is more focused on composition, so running a simple virtual setup keeps me focused anyways. If it all disappears, I can still sit at the piano and transcribe music by hand (hey, that'd be one way to get better at THAT!)

Oh, and I guess I'm when I'm referring to hardware synths not needed updates, I'm looking at my MS20, which has no OS to update :D

Now, as far as Apple Music goes, I suppose we could open up this conversation to analyzing the perceived value of music in general. If I stream an album I like for $10 this month and then it disappears, is it really too much to ask for me to spend another $10 to buy it outright? What is music actually worth? Again, having the ability to check out albums in full before I commit to buying them is super rad. Just like renting a movie and then buying it. I mentioned adding around 100 albums to my library. Thats a ridiculous amount of music; I haven't even begun to listen to it all. I guarantee I won't keep it all on there. The stuff that turns me on the most usually gets me to hunt down a copy on vinyl.

Stab - your CD authoring software - theres got to be something that works out there! I mean, people are still authoring CD's arn't they? Or maybe, CD's are a medium of the past and the authorship of them is irrelevant. (Not intended to be insulting, just an example of thought process!)

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sat Oct 10, 2015 2:02 pm

Yeah I use DSP Quattro now, but I had a bought and paid for copy of Waveburner which I can't use with this OS. I don't care if CDs are outdated or whatever, if people are paying me to master for CD then I master for CD. ;)

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by Broadwave » Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:32 am

As far as VSTs go, I think Native Instruments are the only company who guarantee a "Universal Authorisation Code" if they should go down - something all software developers should consider.

The most annoying thing for me, is when software support is discontinued for a perfectly good piece of hardware. I can no longer use the USB functions of my Multimix 16 USB2 or V-Synth on my Mac :roll:

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by meatballfulton » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:30 am

Broadwave wrote:Native Instruments are the only company who guarantee a "Universal Authorisation Code" if they should go down - something all software developers should consider.
Where's the code for Kore, B4 and Pro53 :pissed:
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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:37 am

Well, ask apple to stop making changes that kill all their old software.

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Re: Software - What if Amazon dies or your VST developer...

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:55 pm

That's just crazy talk, Ashe!
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