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Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:55 pm
by ronP
oo


Interesting, FYI . . .


Kraftwerk sample case overturned

A court in Germany has told electronic band Kraftwerk that a producer who sampled one of their songs was not violating copyright.

The ruling overturns an earlier decision against Moses Pelham's use of a short sample from Metal on Metal.

Judges in Berlin said the two second extract did not infringe copyright, as his song was substantially different.

The move will come as a blow to artists who object to rivals using samples of their work to create new songs.

Kraftwerk's case was originally heard in a state court in Hamburg.

It ruled in Kraftwerk's favour and said reusing even the shortest bit of a song infringed copyright.

In light of today's ruling, the Hamburg court will now have to take up the case again.

The Kraftwerk sample appeared in the rhythm section of a song Pelham produced for German rapper Sabrina Setlur in 1997.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7740515.stm


oo

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:59 pm
by pflosi
interesting turn

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:25 pm
by Johnny Lenin
Wasw Afrika Bambaata ever sued for sampling Kraftwerk in Planet Rock?

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:59 pm
by pricklyrobot
Johnny Lenin wrote:Wasw Afrika Bambaata ever sued for sampling Kraftwerk in Planet Rock?
Yep. Don't know what, if anything, they got beyond songwriting credit on subsequent pressings of Planet Rock.

The melody of the song, Trans-Europe Express, and the percussion from Numbers, taken from the Computer World album, were used as the basis for the song Planet Rock, recorded and released by Afrika Bambaataa and the Soulsonic Force in 1982.[8] Kraftwerk were originally uncredited as authors for the song, which led to a successful lawsuit brought on by the group against Bambaataa and Tommy Boy Records.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:08 pm
by pricklyrobot
The article linked to didn't really go into specifics, and I don't know to what extent German law is analogous to US law, but it seems like this might be a case of mechanical rights versus publishing rights.

Specifically, the defendant here may have licensed the recording from which he sampled, but he didn't pay publishing rights to use the song on which the Kraftwerk recording is based. Typically, you'd only be expected to pay publishing rights in addition to mechanical rights (aka: sample clearance fee) if you were re-using a significant portion of the song (i.e. lifting an entire melody and chorus lyrics, a la Puff Daddy), but Kraftwerk may be trying to push the legal envelope here in an attempt to exert greater control on how, even paid-for, samples are used.

Again, this is pure speculation on my part, based on the limited information provided in the article.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:03 pm
by xpander
=D> free the samples!

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:49 pm
by wiss
I was always under the impression that "rhythm" could never be copyrighted...

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:57 pm
by pricklyrobot
wiss wrote:I was always under the impression that "rhythm" could never be copyrighted...
In general, that's right. You can't copyright a beat the way you can a melody (although obviously you can control the rights to a particular recording of a beat). But, the law, by nature, is always open to interpretation. It's conceivable that you might be able to convince a judge that your particular beat is so unique (or is being used in such a unique manner) and is so integral to the song in which it features, that allowing someone else to use said beat in a different context might confuse the public and degrade the value of your original song.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:57 am
by hageir
xpander wrote:=D> free the samples!
:lol:

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:05 pm
by tallowwaters
Nice to see greed lose again. If those Krauts want more money they can work for it like the rest of us.

What the h**l is wrong with German musicians anyhow? f**k Neubauten wanted like 50 f**k USD for their CDs at their show. Assholes.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 6:52 pm
by pricklyrobot
tallowwaters wrote:Nice to see greed lose again. If those Krauts want more money they can work for it like the rest of us.
What if it's not about money, but rather about having a say in how, and by whom, your recordings are re-purposed?

In theory, I'm in favor of sampling, but I have to admit I'd be pretty upset if a piece of my work ended up, unbeknown to me, in something as godawful as this.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:43 pm
by Johnny Lenin
pricklyrobot wrote:In theory, I'm in favor of sampling, but I have to admit I'd be pretty upset if a piece of my work ended up, unbeknown to me, in something as godawful as this.
I have no idea how it would work in the United States, but you might have a moral rights argument in that case.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:16 am
by tallowwaters
pricklyrobot wrote:
tallowwaters wrote:Nice to see greed lose again. If those Krauts want more money they can work for it like the rest of us.
What if it's not about money, but rather about having a say in how, and by whom, your recordings are re-purposed?

In theory, I'm in favor of sampling, but I have to admit I'd be pretty upset if a piece of my work ended up, unbeknown to me, in something as godawful as this.
Pft. The kind of people that would like that s**t wouldn't like the original version anyways. If P Diddy samples a song of mine and I see all the idiots at the club grinding on a pole to it, I couldnt give a rat's a*s, simply because idiots have ruined my s**t for my entire life. Like most of the smart people in world, I learned to dealwithit/cope/drink/sleep/kickthedog/beatthegirlfriend/whatever.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:27 am
by divineaudio
tallowwaters wrote:Nice to see greed lose again. If those Krauts want more money they can work for it like the rest of us.

What the h**l is wrong with German musicians anyhow? f**k Neubauten wanted like 50 f**k USD for their CDs at their show. Assholes.
i hear the economy in berlin is worse than the one in detroit. and that's pretty f**k bad.


after watching that you tube video i can see why kraftwerk is pissed off.

Re: Kraftwerk sample case overturned

Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:20 pm
by D-Collector
I hate musicians and producers who live off other people's work. Especially that asshole Timbaland or what the h**l his stupid name is, re-using melodies from old Amiga and C64 chiptunes and marketing them as his own. That is just low. LOW!

Image
Yeah, I'm so f**king cool!! I'm the greatest musical genius on the f**king planet!!

Well, you may have some money now but you can't buy talent shithead... =D>