The "Why multiple samplers"

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Spadz
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The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by Spadz » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:48 pm

Hello people,

Well, I admit I'm in a "hole" of ideas these times. I own 2 samplers, and I've been asking myself lately as to why people have multiple different samplers (and why I got the second why in the first place, but that's a different story).

I've add a E64 (and an E-Synth lately for 100$ so I jumped on it) for like 10 years or so, and lately I got an S-550 which I haven't had the chance to toy with that much. I feel, like I'm cheating on my E4... :oops:

Anyways, why do you have multiple samplers and how do you use them. I think this could give ideas to others as well.
For exemple : why do you use an Akai S-3000 and an E4, when both are "close" in specs. What differenciates them so you decide to do this or that on one but not the other. Get it?

Thanks fellow VSE'rs.
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by nathanscribe » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:12 pm

I have an Ensoniq Mirage, which is 8-bit and has a great lo-fi sound. Which is why I use it.

Number 2 is an Akai S3000XL, which I got because it was cheap, and I wanted something 16-bit with plenty of scope. I barely use it because I can't be bothered to learn it - and most of my attempts to use AkaiDisk on the PC to transfer wavs to it have failed.

Number 3 is another Akai - an S01. I was given this recently, and haven't used it yet.

Number 4 is a Roland W30 - another recent incomer. Sounds good, interface seems OK, and I reckon it'll see more use than the Akais. Has a keyboard, so it's a nice self-contained unit. I don't always want to boot up the computer and get Cubase going in order to play stuff. Roland's library is avilable on the web, and seems fairly comprehensive.

On the whole, like anything else, it's a balance between sound quality, ease of use, and power. No one unit will ever be perfect.

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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by gcoudert » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:34 pm

E-mu E4K: this is my favourite of my 3 samplers because it has a nice range of filters and built-in effects, and being a keyboard, its user interface is more easily accessible than the samplers in the rack. I use it with an ASCII keyboard, which makes programming easier. Its modulations routings are simply amazing compared with my 2 Akais.

S1000: it has a nice, warm but crisp sound which is good for sampled pads and drums.

S2800i: I first got this when I wanted to gig again (I didn't!) because it can play MIDI files using its internal sounds. It doesn't see much use these days.

Although there is some compatibility between the S2800i and E4K library, it is much easier to load sounds into the sampler that the CD-ROM was designed for. That's generally how I decide which sampler to use. If I want a sound from the EIIIx library, I'll go for the E-mu. If I want something from say, the Syntec CD, I'll go for one of the Akais.

There is also the issue of polyphony. My arrangements tend to be quite dense so I often need two samplers.
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by aeon » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:41 pm

Roland S-760 because I have a decent library for it, and because it sounds like a JD-990 with user-waves. *That* filter.

Yamaha A5000 because it is a wealth of resources for the creative programmer, and I really like its effects - so much so that I use it as a synth preamp.


cheers,
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by Spadz » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:17 pm

aeon wrote:Yamaha A5000 because it is a wealth of resources for the creative programmer, and I really like its effects - so much so that I use it as a synth preamp.
I suppose you put the output of a synth thru the A/D input. I use to have a A3000 and I found that it was kind of slow on some realtime things and the sound was, well, too "clean" for my taste. But I didn't try what you do. Maybe I should have. Is the A5000 different?

I started lately to do something similar with me E-Synth, but it's more complicated because I have to sample the whole thing. But it's definitly worth the time. I think it's another creative and good way to put a sampler to good use.

I know every sampler has it's own sound. I never got the chance to try an Akai sampler. How is the sound different from an E4? May Monsieur Coudert could answer that one? S.V.P?
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by fOZf8 » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:20 pm

Different samplers = different breeds...different control, different sounding filters/envelopes/output paths etc.

If you can't tell the difference in the sound of them, all thee more reason to keep them both...so that eventually you CAN tell the difference
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by Spadz » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:08 pm

fOZf8 wrote:Different samplers = different breeds...different control, different sounding filters/envelopes/output paths etc.

If you can't tell the difference in the sound of them, all thee more reason to keep them both...so that eventually you CAN tell the difference

We all know they are different.
The question is what do you with each of them and why on that perticular unit. Look at aeon's reply, that's what I'm looking for.
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by tallowwaters » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:40 am

I solved my multiple samplers issue by sampling other samplers. I do, however, have 2 VSS30s now, and would never part with them.
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by gcoudert » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:46 am

Spadz wrote:I know every sampler has it's own sound. I never got the chance to try an Akai sampler. How is the sound different from an E4? May Monsieur Coudert could answer that one? S.V.P?
I know we're digressing from the original thread and I apologise but I'll try to answer that one. It's very difficult to put this into words. Without any effects added, with the filter open and no resonance added, i.e. when playing raw samples, there is very little difference; the S1000 sounds a little sweeter to my ears perhaps but that's very subjective.

The differences become more obvious when you start playing around with the filter. I find the E4K's filter resonance more aggressive than that on the S2800 (the S1000 filter is non resonant) and the E-mu's digital filter sounds more 'efficient', analogue-ish - for want of better words - than the Akai, which reminds me of the filter on my old Wavestation SR or Korg M1. I know some of you are going to hate me for saying this but I always found that on those machines, you could still recognise the original samples whatever the filter settings may have been. The Akai is a little bit like that. When you filter something on the E4K, you can seriously alter the samples. There's a phaser/filter on the E4K I simply love, which works wonders on JP8-type strings/pads when modulated by an LFO.

I have tried to produce synth sounds from single-cycle waveforms and longer raw synth waveform samples on both machines. Whilst the results on the Akais are quite pleasing on the whole, they don't measure up to the E-mu. But as I said, it's a very subjective matter and a question of personal taste.

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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by Spadz » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:58 pm

You are not disgressing at all. I may have not been clear enough. Your explanation is quite on part with the kind of info I look for.

I agree with you that E4's filter are really powerful and warm. I bought the S-550 with mostly drums, and some loer-fi synths, in mind. But since I have it, I found out it sound actually nice. I tought it would sound much harsher than the E4. So I'm trying to figure out what I could do with it, that I can't really with the E4.

And I intend to get an Emax, if i can get someone to offer one on local adds that doesn't think his machine is different than other Emaxs and ask triple the price of what it's worth (pardon my sarcasm, but some people are really nuts) .

Thanks a lot.
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by aeon » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:54 pm

Spadz wrote:
aeon wrote:Yamaha A5000 because it is a wealth of resources for the creative programmer, and I really like its effects - so much so that I use it as a synth preamp.
I suppose you put the output of a synth thru the A/D input. I use to have a A3000 and I found that it was kind of slow on some realtime things and the sound was, well, too "clean" for my taste. But I didn't try what you do. Maybe I should have. Is the A5000 different?
Yep, the output of a synth and/or pedals enter the A/D input - I then have 3 fx blocks to use on that live input.

Part of the reason I love the A5K as a synth preamp is because it is so good at adding dirt, artifacts, and color. It can be clean, but it excels at making things dirty, at least in my experience. All of it under tight control, too.

The A3000 has less overall effects algos, but the working method is the same for live input.


cheers,
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by Spadz » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:57 pm

aeon wrote: Yep, the output of a synth and/or pedals enter the A/D input - I then have 3 fx blocks to use on that live input.

Part of the reason I love the A5K as a synth preamp is because it is so good at adding dirt, artifacts, and color. It can be clean, but it excels at making things dirty, at least in my experience. All of it under tight control, too.

The A3000 has less overall effects algos, but the working method is the same for live input.
Does it go thru the filters as well? Like, can you use the filters to modify the sound from the A/D?
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by aeon » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:33 pm

Spadz wrote:Does it go thru the filters as well? Like, can you use the filters to modify the sound from the A/D?
No. You have to sample to use those - and when you do, you then have the ability (on the A5K) to use up to 6 fx blocks, and do things like parallel compression, and such.

I've used the internal filters + fx filters to create wicked sharp lowpass filters (312dB/oct.) as well as bandpasses so precise you can nearly pluck single sounds out of a whole mix.


cheers,
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by Spadz » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:49 am

That's major. You could process a whole track like that to get some pretty crazy sound!

I really need to experiment with my sampler as processing units, and not only as sophisticated synths.
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Re: The "Why multiple samplers"

Post by PitchBender » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:34 pm

i use an mpc for big sampling and an es-1 for little sampling.
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