Dirtiest sampler?

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.
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Sir Ruff
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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Sir Ruff » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:08 am

novielo wrote:did you try boosting some frequencies while sampling then cutting them at the back to kind of make some artificialy? got that idea while reading this: http://www.sic.rma.ac.be/~xne/el401/aliasing/

ie: sampling at 4khz. boosting the 4000 hz range to get aliasing at 2000 hz. and at the play back you cut around the 4000 hz but you still have the aliasing at 2000hz. with the ability of the s612 to have a wide variety of sampling rate you could use the aliasing where you need it.

i know i'm hawfully complicated when i start stuff like this...
I understand what you are saying-I think I have actually tried boosting the highs before using the 612, but it didn't really have much affect. Howeverm just reading that website about the resampling made me try that in SForge. I downsampled to 4khz, then back to 44. Instant chimy aliasing! haha... maybe I don't need a sampler to do this after all :wink:

BUT the only problem was that a lot of little clips seemed to get introduced into the sample, making it fairly unusable... Any ideas how to get around this, or is that distortion just going to happen?

Aeon, you're makin me want one of those! If the A4 is close enough to the A5 in terms of features, I will have to keep an eye out.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by ohmaha78 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:35 am

Sir Ruff wrote:It's funny you should say that-I just bought an s20 (non-tested of course ) for $50, and maybe if I could figure out if the damn thing worked, that would suffice. I didn't realize you could re-sample so low! But so far, I've tried a variety of power connectors with no luck. Does it take a special power supply?
10vDC 850mA positive to the core is what im using and mine works fine!! :D

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by JB » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:49 am

Just sample at a really low level input signal and normalise it.... that effectively reduces the bit-rate. (That's assuming that your S612 has normalisation).

(I'm sure someone can describe this properly and there are no doubt terminology errors in my explanation below, but here goes.....)

i.e. sampling at half-peak input on a 12-bit sampler and normalising the signal back up to peak volume will provide an 11-bit sample (the source only being at half the samplers input range means that the most significant bit isn't used), likewise an audio signal at 1/4 of the peak input range on a 12-bit sampler = a 10-bit sample and so on.

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by JSRockit » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:24 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
JS-I guess I didn't realize the jomox could sample? I think that would be too similar to the SP though in terms of a fully-fledged standalone unit that I wouldn't take full advantage of.. and from what I understand, the "analog" side doesn't sound analog enough for me.
It allows you to load samples, which it converts to 8-bit. It doesn't have the filters like the SP, so it sounds different.
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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Sir Ruff » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:42 pm

JB wrote:Just sample at a really low level input signal and normalise it.... that effectively reduces the bit-rate. (That's assuming that your S612 has normalisation).

(I'm sure someone can describe this properly and there are no doubt terminology errors in my explanation below, but here goes.....)

i.e. sampling at half-peak input on a 12-bit sampler and normalising the signal back up to peak volume will provide an 11-bit sample (the source only being at half the samplers input range means that the most significant bit isn't used), likewise an audio signal at 1/4 of the peak input range on a 12-bit sampler = a 10-bit sample and so on.
Ok... that's really interesting, but makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, the 612 doesn't have normalizing. Maybe just recording low and beefing up the sample in an audio editor would do the same?
JSRockit wrote: It allows you to load samples, which it converts to 8-bit. It doesn't have the filters like the SP, so it sounds different.
Having finally used one, I've decided that the filters are really a secondary to the gritty aliasing as the element that really defines the SP sound. The low pole ones are useful in some cases-e.g. to lower overhead noise, but the channels with the 4-pole SSMs on them filter so drastically (while also using an AD envelope), I don't actually think these get used that much, except for perhaps low basslines.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by icewatermetallic » Thu May 07, 2009 4:10 am

nadafarms wrote: on the 60 you can compress sounds down even further than it's already dirty 12 bit.
the 60 is just 12 bit

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by gmeredith » Thu May 07, 2009 7:45 am

For the kind of crisp dirty aliasing you want, on a cheap budget, try a Casio SK1 SK5 or SK8. These are 8 bit, 9kHz samplers. Then tap the audio out before the anti-aliasing filters. It makes everything you sample sound like crickets chirping hehe! This is a common and well documented mod for the SK samplers. You can find it in the Yahoo SK group files section:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasioSK/

You can pick up an SK1 on ebay for $20, or an SK5 which has 4 sample memories and retains samples when powered off, for maybe $30 (the SK1 only has 1 sample and erases it on power down). Or at a garage sale for $2 :lol:

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by madtheory » Thu May 07, 2009 11:24 am

Sir Ruff wrote:
BUT the only problem was that a lot of little clips seemed to get introduced into the sample, making it fairly unusable... Any ideas how to get around this, or is that distortion just going to happen?
Try lowering the peak level of the sample to something like -10dBFS, before you do the sample rate conversion. That should give enough headroom to prevent clipping.

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Operatron » Sun May 24, 2009 5:43 am

You can upload samples on LSDJ

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Sir Ruff » Wed May 27, 2009 4:19 am

Operatron wrote:You can upload samples on LSDJ
haha... THAT probably wins for dirtiest sampler!!!

Since I started this thread, I finally picked up an SCI p2002 and love it... you still have to pull the old speed up sample first trick to introduce noticeable aliasing (at least an octave I find), but it does it well. Not quite as grungy as the sp12, but that's not really an issue. There are three sample rates too (16, 32, 44), and while it's nice to have the ability to get really clean or really dirty stuff, so far tho I've pretty much stuck to the 16khz rate to get that crunchy/chimy aliasing that I do love :)
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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by JB » Wed May 27, 2009 4:08 pm

The Prophet 2000 range of samplers are often reputed to be one of the cleanest sounding 12-bit samplers.

Haven't owned one myself though (would love a Prophet 3000).

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Altitude » Wed May 27, 2009 5:28 pm

Just grabbed on of these:

http://www.narrat1ve.com/

Dirty as it gets plus you can clock it off a modular :D

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Shreddie » Wed May 27, 2009 7:19 pm

Not a sampler as such but the Atari ST with Mastersound II sampling software (and cartridge) is about the dirtiest, nastiest sampling I've ever heard. 8 bit with a good variety of rates between 3 and 30 KHz... Clock based transposition... No anti-aliasing.

It has a "compress" function which re-processes the sample to a lower rate which can be handy. Resolutely monophonic and it has no amp or filter envelopes but it responds to MIDI so you can route it through external gear for that... You can have up to 10 samples available and stored in memory... Accessable via the numeric keypad.

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Sir Ruff » Wed May 27, 2009 8:11 pm

JB wrote:The Prophet 2000 range of samplers are often reputed to be one of the cleanest sounding 12-bit samplers.

Haven't owned one myself though (would love a Prophet 3000).
the p2002 is definitely cleaner than my s612, and also the sp12, but with a low sample rate and a sped up sample source, you still get good aliasing which is all I really care about. Aliasing and grit are not quite as OTT as the sp12, but still sounds great with the right material.... plus I'm willing to lose that sound in exchange for a much lower price tag, analog filters, envelopes and a very easy interface!
Altitude wrote:Just grabbed on of these:

http://www.narrat1ve.com/

Dirty as it gets plus you can clock it off a modular :D
That looks awesome! I wonder how hard they are to put together...
Shreddie wrote:Not a sampler as such but the Atari ST with Mastersound II sampling software (and cartridge) is about the dirtiest, nastiest sampling I've ever heard. 8 bit with a good variety of rates between 3 and 30 KHz... Clock based transposition... No anti-aliasing.
that sounds great too, though given all the effort involved, probably not worth it... maybe if you already had one.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Dirtiest sampler?

Post by Altitude » Wed May 27, 2009 9:18 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:
Altitude wrote:Just grabbed on of these:

http://www.narrat1ve.com/

Dirty as it gets plus you can clock it off a modular :D
That looks awesome! I wonder how hard they are to put together...
Took me about 2 hrs and you can get the SMD chip presoldered, everything else is through hole. There are maybe 60 parts all together.

Quite similar in specs to the atari mentioned above actually but also has two banks and 5 effects to boot

Here are Vasculator's demos:

http://vascaudio.com/audio/swinebits.mp3 - virus into wtpa
http://vascaudio.com/audio/crunchedOutGash.mp3 - machinedrum into wtpa

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