Taking a short sample and making it long?

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zardoz677
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Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by zardoz677 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:27 pm

So let's say I want to take a little snipped if a pad or bass hit from an album and make it one long smooth continuous note without it sounding like ive deliberately set start and end loop points, what device would I need ? A granular sampler?
Could you please suggest a great device for doing this?

Thanks!

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by ellaguru » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:51 am

some akai mpcs use to cut samples with zero crossing ability, roland mvs too i think.
a now free software wich do that is cool edit pro 2.0
what is zero crossing?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_crossing
basicaly, in sampling world speaking this lets you trim samples without earing ,when finishing the editing, unwanted portion of micro noise: this could be done also by ears with other samplers, but the ones i mentioned above find zero points automatically.
by starting with this basic principle you could do long loops, droning etc

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by ninja6485 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:42 am

This is from this sound on sound article: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_ar ... sics1.html
FINDING LOOP POINTS

The basic idea behind looping is pretty straightforward, but finding the best-sounding loop points can be tricky for a whole variety of reasons. Firstly, unless the waveform shapes at the beginning and end of the loop match up in level, shape and phase, you're quite likely to end up with a click at the sample loop point. Clicks can be minimised by looping at 'zero-crossing' points (the point where the electrical signal crosses over from being positive to negative or vice versa), but if the waveform levels and shapes don't match pretty closely, you may still hear a glitch.

If you take too long a section of sample to form your loop, you may find that the sound's own natural decay results in a different level between the loop start and loop end, which will be audible as an unnatural modulation. This might lead you to believe that the shorter the loop, the smoother the result will be. The reality of the situation is that even apparently steady sounds are constantly evolving in their harmonic texture, and if you take too short a section to a loop, you end up with something that sounds more like an electronic tone than a real instrument. Part of the skill in getting good loops is choosing the optimum loop length, and that's something that really needs practice and experience.

Some sounds refuse to loop without a glitch, and in these cases 'crossfade' looping is an option. This technique involves fading out the end of the loop and overlapping it with a fade-in of the start of the loop, and it's a facility provided by virtually all samplers. This avoids the possibility of a sharp glitch -- but you're still not off the hook, because if the start and end of the loop are badly matched, you'll hear a change in timbre at the crossfade point, and if the loop is short, this will take on an irritating, cyclic quality. Slowly decaying sounds can sometimes be looped more successfully if they are compressed before being sampled, as this will maintain a more consistent level.

Finally, stereo sounds can be very difficult to loop because a good waveform match on one channel may not correspond to a good match on the other channel. Where stereo looping is essential, crossfade looping may be necessary to hide the join, so wherever possible you should keep looped samples in mono and reserve stereo for longer musical sections such as drum loops.
Most samplers hard and soft, and probably all rack samplers should have looping capabilities. Some, like Kontakt and the Akai S1000 can let you have multiple loop points. I greatly prefer rack samplers, and I'm a big fan of the Akai S series, and some of the Emu Ultra series. I'm sure a great way to get started can even be with some freeware VSTs, and I know that at least some versions of Ableton Live come with a decent sampler plugin.

All you need is a basic plug in. Expanding to some nice rack samplers just adds a bit of fun to the mix ;) 8-) :hifi:

Also browse the sound on sound archives for more articles, like this one:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug05/a ... cience.htm
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by pflosi » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:51 am

V-Synth :thumbright:

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by ellaguru » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:28 am

pflosi wrote:V-Synth :thumbright:
+1
i forget this (and i also have it ahaha)

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by Steve Jones » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:30 am

Melodyne?
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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by madtheory » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:49 am

Antares Infinity, but you'll need an old Mac to do it. It was for making seamless loops with short sounds, to fit in small memory samplers in the olden days :) I still bust it out occasionally to do what you describe. It's better than anything else including V-Synth.

V-Synth will do it but strictly speaking it's timestretching not looping. So obviously you could try any timestretching device or plugin. Melodyne does timestretching. Kontakt can do it (not as nicely as V-synth, but it's good at times). Lots of things do. You'll get different sounding results with each one.

In fact most timestretching is basically granular synthesis. Melodyne has some other proprietary voodoo. I guess V-Synth does too, nothing else sounds like it. It's lovely. I miss mine :(

You could also try infinite reverb (any reverb can do that these days).

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by pflosi » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:21 am

madtheory wrote:V-Synth will do it but strictly speaking it's timestretching not looping.
It's both. Looping to get a loop. Then timestretching for transposition of keys... Or of course timestretching as well when you just reduce the timing of the sample (this gets into granular territory).

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by madtheory » Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:48 pm

Except for actual looping, the V-Synth is a bit rubbish I think. It doesn't recognise loop points stored in AIFF files (or at least, I could never figure out how so I just typed in the number from the file), and the autoloop is rather old fashioned and doesn't crossfade. But you can use the timestretching to just make it longer, by adjusting the transpose parameters. Which is why I said "strictly speaking".

Going from memory here, I don't own one currently. :(

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by somebedroomdj » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:17 pm

I might be alone in thinking this, but I find the SP-808's timestretching to be a great tool. At extremes, it does some strange things to samples, in what I would consider a good way.

As far as samplers that find zero crossings automatically, the only one I know of for sure is the SU-700.
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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by vicd » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:31 pm

An iPad loaded with SAMPLR and iVoxel.
Very straightforward, and, IMO, these guys easily outdo the V-Synth.
Samplr looks (and sounds) like a granulator, iVoxel does different voodoo (closer to V-synth's Variphrase).

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by ninja6485 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:53 pm

The V-synth is cool, but isn't it a bit overkill for what the op wants to do? I got my s1000 for $70, and it has 9 loop points. And bloody timestretch!

I googled "free sampler plugin" and within 3 minutes found a link to this:

http://vemberaudio.se/shortcircuit.php
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by pflosi » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:35 pm

Totally overkill, isn't that what we always strive for? ;)

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by zardoz677 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:16 am

Thanks a ton to all of you for your response! I use reason which has basic samplers which can do looping but are there perhaps not more advanced samplers out there where you could take for example a little piece of a guitar hit and turn it into a long held note but not exactlly from set loop points but somehow introduce random variations of where it starts and the speed at which its played so you get this long note that has natural movement?

I'm thinking along the lines of reasons maelstrom but where you can add your own samples. Is this what alchemy or isotope iris is for perhaps?

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Re: Taking a short sample and making it long?

Post by Ashe37 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:19 am

sample+ lfo...

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