Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.
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madtheory
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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by madtheory » Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:40 am

ninja6485 wrote:...the s2000 has both an option to lower the quality of the samples coming in in the sampling section...
Sound interesting. What is this option exactly? And when you say "sample things pitched up" do you mean using varispeed before the S2000, or is this something that can be done onboard as well? How much difference between that and using the onboard sample rate conversion? It's really cool they gave a quality scale for that. On the TX16W I would sometimes boot into Typhoon 1.0 because the SRC was worse than Typhoon 2000. A quality scale makes that much easier :)

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by polyana » Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:08 pm

The Yamaha A-series have similar features, you can sample at 44/22/11/5 kHz, or 22/11/5 without the anti-alias filters for some really dirty sounds.

They'll also load just about any .wav from disk. Fancy an 8 bit/8kHz drum sound? No problem. Also lots of effects on board, some of them pretty nasty. I know it's not the same as some of the old school machines mentioned in this thread, but for the prices these go for now :shock: The last one I saw locally was €50

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:34 pm

Sir Ruff wrote:Thanks Ninja... On one hand this should be obvious, but it's great to hear it spelled out, especially on something as completely vanilla as the S2000! Do you have any examples of the S2000 doin' the dirty? I think the resampling feature would be key, much moreso than bit-rate. I used to do the transpose up, resample, and then pitch back down trick with Windows Sound Recorder. Get's nasty quick. Not always in a musical or pleasant way, but one way to get that effect nonetheless.

I just bought an EPS-16 which can also resample, so I'll be testing how grungy this thing can get too.
It's a great trick! I originally used it to try to make the mirage more usable - probably after reading about it on here. I thought I posted the examples in a thread here, but I can't find it! Maybe it was one of the competition threads, or possibly a PM. I'll see if I can cook something up when I get a chance!
madtheory wrote:
ninja6485 wrote:...the s2000 has both an option to lower the quality of the samples coming in in the sampling section...
Sound interesting. What is this option exactly? And when you say "sample things pitched up" do you mean using varispeed before the S2000, or is this something that can be done onboard as well? How much difference between that and using the onboard sample rate conversion? It's really cool they gave a quality scale for that. On the TX16W I would sometimes boot into Typhoon 1.0 because the SRC was worse than Typhoon 2000. A quality scale makes that much easier :)
By sampling things pitched up, I mean the process by which you pitch a sample up by other means before sampling it into your sampler. You can get different results depending on how you do it, so for instance if you're using some records and a turn table, you could alter the speed if playback, or of course you can use a second sampler to pitch it up, and then record it (something like the e6400ultra could resample itself negating the need for a second sampler), or use an external editor. I've found that one of the easiest ways is to use some super transparent sampler like maschine, set the sample to trigger from say, c3, and then play a 4 or 5 and record the output. That way you don't have to waste time trying to figure out how much to tune it down, you just set it to play 2 octaves lower and you're off and running.

This is a great way to make up for time stretch features with limited bpm resolution, like on the s1000, but have very precise tuning resolutions to get it most of the way there with timestretch, and then make up the difference.

The option to lower the quality of the sample coming in is the ability to record at a lower quality - you get a choice between 20k bandwidth, or you can lower the recording quality to 10k. It seems as though it takes the best quality 10k sample from the inputs when you're recording. The main difference between using this and the resample feature is the ability to adjust the quality during resampling, and to enter the exact bandwidth you want manually. I'm nor familiar with varispeed!

The TX16W is an intriguing machine... I downloaded the emulator to try it out, but I don't have a daw that can route anything to its inputs, and I haven't found any disks for it!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:25 pm

Ok, so I made a new demo with a sample from a sample cd that came with my s2000.


Here's the breakdown:

1. Sample through the digital ins
2. Analog ins recorded at 20k bandwidth
3. Analog ins recorded at 10k bandwidth
4. 10k resampled with lower quality Q5, 8k?
5. 10k resampled to 4k bandwidth with Quality set to 1
6. something in between*
7. something in between*

8. Timestretch mangle
9. ..
10. ..
11. ..
12. ..
13. ..

14. 10k transposed 1 octave
15. 10k transposed 2 octaves
16. 10k transposed 3 octaves
17. 10 k transposed 4 octaves

*for the files in between, I'm not sure if there are limitations in the OS that do not allow you to do certain combinations of parameters with certain samples, so I included these to see if anyone notices a difference. I'm not sure if they are the 10k sample I started from, or variations like 8k at quality 5, etc. I'm not certian, but I think the quality setting is something like a setting for detailed the OS will look at the sample when resampling it, so with a 10k sample there may be no difference until you get to the bottom digits.

One thing to notice with the timestretched files is that the timestretch quickly destroys the rytms at low qualities, resulting in a lot more than just low quality. I did not test the timestretch function on intelligent more with modest settings to a higher quality sample, these are all a little bit more extreme settings to show the nature of the distortion.

Samples 14 through 17 are the most interesting: these were pitched up with maschine, and then recorded into the s2000 and pitched back down to normal. They get a nice low bit rate grit almost immediately... And check out the last one! I only did 4 octaves, but you can immagine what the 5th, 6th, or 7th octaves would sound like!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Sir Ruff » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:48 pm

Excellent demo, thanks! Quite revealing (in general) how the sampling rate can affect the sound.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by madtheory » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:28 pm

OK, so the quality setting is just changing the sampling rate. I was hoping it was choosing a different filter/ algorithm. This is why I used to sometimes use Typhoon v1.0 instead of Typhoon 2000 to resample. You can get a lot of mileage out of sampling something down to 9kHz, then sampling it back up again to 33k or 50k. You get this smooth airy thing going on as it fills in the gaps to make the SR higher again.

The transposing way of doing sounds really good though. This is how it's done on the EMU SP1200 as well. Originally it was just a way to fit a long loop into the short sample memory. I'll try pitching up in Kontakt and sampling back into the TX16W, and the Casio :). It could also be cool to use elastic audio in Pro Tools to pitch it up without changing the speed...

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Sir Ruff » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:21 pm

madtheory wrote:I'll try pitching up in Kontakt and sampling back into the TX16W, and the Casio :). It could also be cool to use elastic audio in Pro Tools to pitch it up without changing the speed...
I would like to hear this done on the TX. Despite its appearance, all accounts seem to suggest it's actually pretty clean overall.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by ninja6485 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:41 am

madtheory wrote:so the quality setting is just changing the sampling rate.
No, the sample rate control is independent from the quality amount. I think what the quality setting does is adjust how hard the OS looks at the sample when changing the sample rate (or uses different algorithms?). The highest quality takes a long time to load, whIle the lowest quality setting changes the sample rate almost instantly. It seems to be modeled after a similar feature in the intelligent time stretch menu. I think part of what makes it difficult to notice on lower quality conversions is due to the course resolution of a sample with a 4k bandwidth! They probably look at this as a feature, since you can use lower quality conversions and save space. Perhaps it would also he more noticeable on a sample with more delicate higher frequencies
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by samplersrunique » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:11 pm

emax 2, generally overlooked due to no anaolgue filters but the digital filters are superb and depeche mode made great use of the emax 2 in many of there hits , a few alan wilder zip disks floating around the net also.

lovely crunchy sound when you use the hiphop technique by sampling things speed up and then slowing it down in the emax, really nice gritty sound.

if you find one in working condition preferably with the stereo expansion buy it.

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by madtheory » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:38 pm

Depeche Mode only used the Emax 2 for touring not studio. Studio was EII, E3, Synclavier and Akai S1000 when Flood came on board.

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:19 am

^ Glad to see the thread is still alive!

The EII is one I've found really cool for a good while, I'd probably love to own one (if they weren't out of my price range and I had more space). The Emax seems nice too, especially the SE version. Don't know about the Emax 2, though, not too crazy about it (personally) and it's 16 bit. Nonetheless, thank you for your contribution

I'm thinking about maybe getting a WMD Geiger Counter some time in the future. It's a shame some people tend to look at it/describe it as if it's a regular distortion unit; it's so much more. 8 bit digital with bit and sample rate reduction, wavetable, and more. Looks really nice, I bet I could get it to make my drums sound awesome very easily

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