Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.
phineus_ii
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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by phineus_ii » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:58 pm

Chewy wrote: Or you could pick up the newest OS, drop it to 8 bit so you can see for yourself, and try what mad said on top of that...
OK, could you tell me where to get it? I've looked on google for a long time now. I use OS 2.0

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Sir Ruff » Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:41 pm

sequentialsoftshock wrote:
phineus_ii wrote:Name me another digital sampler that will let you overdrive the inputs and let you get away with it 8-)
MPC60 8-)
S-612 too...
Mirage also let you overdrive pretty hard without straight clipping.

And if we're getting really esoteric, the Dynacord ADD-1 sampler overdrives really nicely.
Do you even post on vse bro?

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:54 am

Get ready for a long post. Tl;dr at bottom

Realized pretty soon after posting last night/this morning that I was the one being stupid, sorry about that.

Even if I had been right, I definitely shouldn't have responded the way I did, that wasn't cool of me at all. I was in a bad mood last night, and that's not an excuse, but I'm normally not like that. Not only that, but I thought there was lots of stuff out there saying what I had said, but there wasn't, so I'm now pretty sure I was wrong - wouldn't be the first time, haha

Mad - the S2000 page here on the VSE says 8 or 16 bit, and there was a thread on KVR (I think) where the OP mentioned that he should try sampling at 8 bit with his S2k to get more mileage out of it. I think that was like all I could find, so again, I was most likely wrong about that.
Neither of those pages are even close to proof (of being able to sample at 8 bits), as lots of VSE reviews are not perfect and can have errors. The KVR thread one isn't either, because he's just some guy on the internet. (Kinda like me, heh) Just figured I'd give those examples since you asked, and to show (somewhat) why I had originally thought that to be correct. Nukeitfromorbit had mentioned (on the 1st page, I believe) that the S2k could sample at a lower bit-rate than the ES-1 with the newest OS, so that's another reason I thought I was right. However, he could have been mistaken, and that's totally fine; we're all human
madtheory wrote: No it's not. It's actually perfectly reasonable because there is no evidence of said OS update with 8 bit sampling,
You are absolutely right, it was 100% reasonable of him to call it nonsense. I can't believe I described it as "fact"... :facepalm: That is one of the few topics I jumped to a conclusion on without sufficient objective support, and I shouldn't have done that
phineus_ii wrote: OK, could you tell me where to get it? I've looked on google for a long time now. I use OS 2.0
Sorry for responding in the way I did to you, it was pretty douchey. After a little bit of googling earlier today, it appears that OS 2.0 is the newest (that's what it seemed like, anyway), which is further confirmation that you were most likely correct in the first place
phineus_ii wrote: My vote goes to the s900/s950, you just can't beat that sound. Name me another digital sampler that will let you overdrive the inputs and let you get away with it 8-)
s900 and 950 are indeed pretty damn cool, they were fairly high on my list of considerations toward the beginning of the thread. I think I prefer 8 bit, as I like my sounds to be more lo-fi and grimey, those are probably the sounds that personally can't be beat for me. But s900/950 are awesome, and far from squeaky clean (which is good).

Again, I apologize, my response was not justified

tl;dr: I apologize greatly, my reply was douchey and I was probably wrong anyway. Phineus_ii was justified in calling sampling at 8 bit with S2k "nonsense."

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:59 am

commodorejohn wrote: Yes you can, you just discard a certain number of the least significant bits, either setting them to 0 (which does slightly weird things to the amplitude range/scaling) or duplicating the most significant bits into their place (which offers a closer match to the native scaling.) It's simple enough that you can even do it on samplers that don't technically offer it as an option, by pulling the samples into a computer, converting them to a lower bit depth, and converting them back up to its native bit depth. Easy-peasy.
Nice post with good info! I may have to try that sometime, if I can

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by phineus_ii » Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:03 am

Chewy wrote:
phineus_ii wrote: OK, could you tell me where to get it? I've looked on google for a long time now. I use OS 2.0
Sorry for responding in the way I did to you, it was pretty douchey. After a little bit of googling earlier today, it appears that OS 2.0 is the newest (that's what it seemed like, anyway), which is further confirmation that you were most likely correct in the first place
no worries buddy lol I wasn't offended anyway, I was actually really curious because you seemed to really believe in what you said + it would have been an awesome revelation to me that the 2000 could do 8bit. I've had it for over 7 or 8 years the s2000, I've had 2 I like them so much and my video tutorial on it got quite a lot of thumbs up which I'm happy about.
What I'm not happy about is that info on the main page, making it look official now that it's capable of sampling in 8bit, some one really needs to update it.
Chewy wrote:
phineus_ii wrote: My vote goes to the s900/s950, you just can't beat that sound. Name me another digital sampler that will let you overdrive the inputs and let you get away with it 8-)
s900 and 950 are indeed pretty damn cool, they were fairly high on my list of considerations toward the beginning of the thread. I think I prefer 8 bit, as I like my sounds to be more lo-fi and grimey, those are probably the sounds that personally can't be beat for me. But s900/950 are awesome, and far from squeaky clean (which is good).
Yeah, I don't think i've met many people who don't like the s900/s950. It's my go-to sampler for drums as you can have it either surprisingly clean, or you can freak her out, sample in slightly hot at bandwidth rates like 080000 - 090000, add a bit of EQ on the desk and you get it dirty sounding. It's not super dirty. The main thing that stops the aliasing seems to be this anti-aliasing filter chip... apparently it'll be impossible for anyone to hack it. :cry:
Another thing about the s900/s950 like is THAT filter... which for some reason people still argue about, it IS defiantly an analog/digital hybrid (analog but digitally controlled... or something like that) low pass filter. It's been proven many times now!!!

You might also like some 16bit samplers because although they're 16bit... they do very low sample rates.. I'm talkin' about the EPS classic and EPS16+... also the Casio FZ1 / FZ10M. but yeah the Mirage would be like super duper gritty! Another one people forget about is the commodore Amiga computers, but you need the (getting rare'r) sampling cartridges. I have the amiga1200 and like the Emu stuff, you can pitch samples before they go in and when you lower the pitch it grits 'em up nicely.

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:36 am

phineus_ii wrote: no worries buddy lol I wasn't offended anyway, I was actually really curious because you seemed to really believe in what you said + it would have been an awesome revelation to me that the 2000 could do 8bit. I've had it for over 7 or 8 years the s2000, I've had 2 I like them so much and my video tutorial on it got quite a lot of thumbs up which I'm happy about.
What I'm not happy about is that info on the main page, making it look official now that it's capable of sampling in 8bit, some one really needs to update it.
Ah, that's good, and yeah, it would be awesome if it could do 8 bit. And the S2k does seems like a good sampler, may not be considered one of the "professional" units by many, but that's fine - it keeps the prices low! I personally don't think it looks like a bad sampler - you get envelopes, LFOs (I believe), digital filters, and of course, most all the sample specific editing features you could want. Of course many other samplers have LFOs and ENVs, but some don't, and the S2k goes for pretty cheap, it's a good deal

I think it should be changed as well. In VSE's defense though, it would take a lot of time to go through and change things in reviews that need it, and they have said in the Write Reviews thread that submissions will be fact-checked and proofread. This might (more like hopefully) be a recent statement, as there are many reviews where you look at the grammar alone and are like "what?"

Indeed, one of the main reasons I wanted a lower-fi sampler was for drums. What really got me into electronic music several years ago was industrial and genres fused with it, I love dirty, crunchy, distorted drums
Also, the original EPS is 13 bit (EPS 16+ is 16 bit, though), and I was really tempted for a while to get one. On their website, it shows music go round has an EPS for like $150 in one of their stores less than an hour from where I live. It hasn't got any disks with it, but they're easy enough to find on ebay, so I was considering grabbing it for a while, not too bad a price. It's been there for a while.

Casio FZs are awesome, too! I've heard a couple tracks by a guy on youtube that used the Hohner (HS-1) version of the FZ-1, and I dug the s**t out of the sound. Apparently, there's also a synth section, which is a nice bonus. After I discovered how cool some Casio gear is (got myself a CZ-5000 almost a year ago) and started looking into their other synths and samplers, I was checking ebay a lot to see if there were any FZs. Not so much anymore, but it is a nice piece of gear.

I hadn't even thought of sampling on an Amiga. They could be pretty useful, especially for a hardware setup, as you can use the old soft sequencers made for it to sequence gear (and it'll stay tight, since there's not as much going on in the background/elsewhere, like with newer computers), AND use it to make yourself some gritty samples!

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Ashe37 » Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:09 am

Chewy wrote: I hadn't even thought of sampling on an Amiga. They could be pretty useful, especially for a hardware setup, as you can use the old soft sequencers made for it to sequence gear (and it'll stay tight, since there's not as much going on in the background/elsewhere, like with newer computers), AND use it to make yourself some gritty samples!
Amigas have lots of background tasks. Preemptive multitasking since 1985, baby!

Be aware that to sample on an Amiga, you need sampling hardware for it. They have audio *out*, but you need extra stuff for *in*

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by madtheory » Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:39 pm

Chewy wrote:Not only that, but I thought there was lots of stuff out there saying what I had said, but there wasn't, so I'm now pretty sure I was wrong - wouldn't be the first time, haha
Ballsy well done :)

Ya Casio FZ filter is WIERD. Sounds great. Pretty much defined the band LFO. And probably Aphex Twin as well (including turning it off and on quickly to glitch the memory).

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:36 am

Ashe37 wrote: Amigas have lots of background tasks. Preemptive multitasking since 1985, baby!

Be aware that to sample on an Amiga, you need sampling hardware for it. They have audio *out*, but you need extra stuff for *in*
Thanks for the clarification! And that makes sense you'd need extra stuff for inputs, I think Phineus_ii mentioned one would need extra hardware, but thanks for the info nonetheless. I most likely won't get one, but it is a neat idea
madtheory wrote: Ballsy well done :)

Ya Casio FZ filter is WIERD. Sounds great. Pretty much defined the band LFO. And probably Aphex Twin as well (including turning it off and on quickly to glitch the memory).
Thanks! And yeah, FZs are nice, Casio definitely proved they could make a "professional" sampler with the FZs

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Ashe37 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:03 am

Chewy wrote:
Ashe37 wrote: Amigas have lots of background tasks. Preemptive multitasking since 1985, baby!

Be aware that to sample on an Amiga, you need sampling hardware for it. They have audio *out*, but you need extra stuff for *in*
Thanks for the clarification! And that makes sense you'd need extra stuff for inputs, I think Phineus_ii mentioned one would need extra hardware, but thanks for the info nonetheless. I most likely won't get one, but it is a neat idea
The extra hardware ain't much when you can find it. You can get samples onto the machine if you have DD floppies and a pc with a floppy drive, or if the Amiga has PC format reading software and a PCMCIA port (like on an A1200, one of which i'm throwing up for sale shortly)

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by phineus_ii » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:40 pm

lol, I think if people (especially people working at Akai, Emu etc) saw this thread back in 1988 (when they were trying to get the best quality sampling), they'd wonder what planet we're on!! :lol:

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by phineus_ii » Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:44 pm

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here but there is a trick on the FZ10M (and probably FZ1 too) to make samples even dirtier. as I was playing with my fz10m (well I say 'my', I've just sold it which I might regret very soon haha) and I remember a blog or something about how you can open up the top end.

so you record at say the 18 sample rate (I think 09 is a bit too extreme, for my tastes anyway) then you go to either create or define voice (can't remember sorry) go to "LOOP" then scroll down to where it says crossfade and knock up the value to 00001 (instead of 00000) and then listen !!! :twisted:

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:05 am

VSS-30 came today!

got to mess around with it for a few minutes. Initial impression: very tiny and very cool

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by Chewy » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:53 am

Ashe37 wrote: The extra hardware ain't much when you can find it. You can get samples onto the machine if you have DD floppies and a pc with a floppy drive, or if the Amiga has PC format reading software and a PCMCIA port (like on an A1200, one of which i'm throwing up for sale shortly)
Ah ok, thanks for the info again!
phineus_ii wrote: lol, I think if people (especially people working at Akai, Emu etc) saw this thread back in 1988 (when they were trying to get the best quality sampling), they'd wonder what planet we're on!! :lol:
Haha, I was thinking exactly that the other day!! I wish some of the big manufacturers like them actually saw threads such as these today, and made some new gear because of it.

I mean, it'd be so easy for a big manufacturer to make a full featured new little 8 bit sampler nowadays. Imagine that: A brand new 8 bit sampler from Roland, Akai, Korg, etc. with LFOs routable to several destinations, full ADSR envelopes, a filter (preferably VCF, but I wouldn't complain if it wasn't), an intuitive, easy to use interface (maybe even knob/slider/button per function?) perhaps some effects, and modern conveniences like SD card storage...
that would be awesome

There are still some new 8 bit samplers out there, but not with all those features, and it'd be nice to see a modern one with most of the above features - a dirty, grimy, crunchy, but powerful and simple sampling beast - from a big company with decades of synth/sampler experience.

Speaking of the ones that are out there, the Bastl Microgranny is awesome. 8 bit internal sampling via line in or built-in mic, as well as: Knobs, (AR) envelope, crusher, granular functions, sample and patch storage to SD card, ability to play notes or individual grains via MIDI, and more. They're pretty affordable, too. Really thinking about getting one

Interesting info about the FZ, btw

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Re: Good crunchy, dirty, lofi samplers

Post by garranimal » Wed Jan 14, 2015 6:09 am

Chewy wrote:Also, the original EPS is 13 bit (EPS 16+ is 16 bit, though), and I was really tempted for a while to get one.
I just picked up a rack EPS 16+ locally. Waiting for my boot floppy to arrive, my floppy is down or I would have made one. I flipped an ASR-10 some years ago and was impressed with the DACs in that, I imagine the EPS 16+ DACs and 7kHz sample rates will be very raunchy. Can't wait to run some sounds into it.

My other, longtime, sampler is an E-mu ESI-32. I was re-sampling some drumloops at its lowest 12kHz rate and it was bad in that good way. But I want something worse (better).

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