Sample behavior across the keyboard

Discussions about anything related to samplers and sampling techniques.

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby madtheory » Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:54 pm

Ya Pierre Schaeffer's phonogene was the only analogue pitch shifter- sixties I think? The first Eventide, Lexicon and Kurzweil boxes in the seventies were digital.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 5098
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Flangebeast Mk1, Plonkotron, Morovdis Arpeggiator, Maplin My First EQ, Cabaret Voltaire, Jeff Wayne Thunderchild rack, thermostat, Buck Owens Moog.
Band: Minim

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby pflosi » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:59 pm

50ies :)

And yeah it's tape, but really it's rather different than what we usually associate with a "pitch shifter".

And, on topic of this thread, it definitely does not timestretch. Not possible analog.
User avatar
pflosi
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
 
Posts: 3620
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm
Location: zürich
Gear: more than 150 characters...

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby briandc » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:17 pm

Perhaps there would be two ways to go about this:

using the same sample but changing pitch based on midi note number,

or, using the sampled sound as scaled in a regular sampler, but with a "time block" that would stretch or shorten the note, depending on the midi note played. ??


brian
Feeling trapped behind Windows? Try linux: More than 500 flavors to choose from!
LinuxSynths.com
amSynth on Soundcloud
User avatar
briandc
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:38 am
Real name: brian
Gear: 3 Midi controllers and anything linux! :)

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby joeboy » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:09 pm

Maybe the name of the term itself is "spectral processing" or "frequency domain processing?"

I'm really ignorant about the actual science behind it. I'm still working on time domain pitching of samples in my code.

If you have csound (it's FOSS), you can use some of the examples here:

http://files.csound-tutorial.net/floss_ ... sing.xhtml

I followed a similar tutorial a while ago and found that while the sample time remained constant it "decayed" pretty rapidly beyond one octave in either direction. Something similar happens with the V-Synth if you don't tell the formant to scale along the keys, so I guess any implementation of this kind of pitching should take formants into account somehow.

Somebody please jump in if I'm wrong about any of this
User avatar
joeboy
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:22 am
Location: 熊本
Gear: ax-80, jx-8p, v-synth, monotribe, ПИФ, tx81z, sy35, tg77

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby madtheory » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:27 pm

Most pitch shifters sound odd beyond an octave either way, depending on source. V-Synth often produces useable results beyond that. I dug in to Kontakt's Time Machine Pro, and once you set up a physical controller for formant shifting and portamento, it will do the Variphrase thing pretty much the same.

pflosi wrote:50ies :)

And yeah its 's tape, but really it's rather different than what we usually associate with a "pitch shifter".

And, on topic of this thread, it definitely does not timestretch. Not possible analog.


It IS possible. Varispeed it to change duration and use phonogene to correct to original pitch. Sound quality would be odd, but that's part of the charm.

This is exactly the same process I described earlier to answer the OP.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 5098
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Flangebeast Mk1, Plonkotron, Morovdis Arpeggiator, Maplin My First EQ, Cabaret Voltaire, Jeff Wayne Thunderchild rack, thermostat, Buck Owens Moog.
Band: Minim

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby briandc » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:53 pm

Hi all (and thanks for the input!)--

I haven't abandoned this topic, and today I found another suggestion that might get similar results:
use something like the application Rubberband (see here: rubberband ) to change the pitch of the original sample. So, basically making 87 new samples to fill the entire 88-note keyboard range, and then save the entire thing as an SFZ file with an application like Swami .

Rubberband works from the command line (terminal) really easily. For example, with this command:

Code: Select all
rubberband -t <timeratio> -p <pitchratio> <infile.wav> <outfile.wav>


I might use:

Code: Select all
rubberband -t 1.0 -p 1.0 test.wav output.wav


This would give me an output file in wave format with the same time duration (t) and an octave higher pitch (p).


Thoughts? Ideas?

brian
Feeling trapped behind Windows? Try linux: More than 500 flavors to choose from!
LinuxSynths.com
amSynth on Soundcloud
User avatar
briandc
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:38 am
Real name: brian
Gear: 3 Midi controllers and anything linux! :)

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby madtheory » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:59 pm

Looks like sample mapping and looping has to be done manually? PITA. I'm currently recapping the PSU in a Yamaha SPX90ii, hoping to bring the machine back to life. Edit: it has "Freeze" which is a 2 second pitch shifting sampler +/- 1 octave i.e. it will change the pitch but not the duration. Pretty cool :)
Last edited by madtheory on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
madtheory
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
 
Posts: 5098
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 12:45 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland
Real name: Tomas Mulcahy
Gear: Flangebeast Mk1, Plonkotron, Morovdis Arpeggiator, Maplin My First EQ, Cabaret Voltaire, Jeff Wayne Thunderchild rack, thermostat, Buck Owens Moog.
Band: Minim

Re: Sample behavior across the keyboard

Postby briandc » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:34 pm

madtheory wrote:Looks like sample mapping and looping has to be done manually? PITA. I'm currently recapping the PSU in a Yamaha SPX90ii, hoping to bring the machine back to life. Does the pitch shifter thing. Also is a sampler itself, but not at the same time. I've been playing with the sampler in the Alesis Quadraverb, lots of aliasing. So the two together will timestretch. No programming required :)


Well yes, manually. -It's about as easy as writing this sentence! :D


brian
Feeling trapped behind Windows? Try linux: More than 500 flavors to choose from!
LinuxSynths.com
amSynth on Soundcloud
User avatar
briandc
Junior Member
Junior Member
 
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:38 am
Real name: brian
Gear: 3 Midi controllers and anything linux! :)

Previous

Return to Samplers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests