Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

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Yekuku
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Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by Yekuku » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:21 pm

HI there ,
I have been doing this all these years manually and I am looking for a software that can do this for me , automatically.
I have been told that , Zero X Seamless looper and Antares Infinity used to work good, but both software are long gone.
Do you know of any new software that can do this with good results ?
Thanks
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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by Baus » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:02 pm

I am not sure WHAT you are sampling but if it's your own synths then:

1: You might want to take a look a SampleRobot. It has a feature called WaveRobot that will find loops automatically. I have never used this software so don't ask me about it. I just read what it does.

2: Sample your material on the F3 tuned to -23cents. This will give you single cycle loops of 256samples. Transposing octaves up or down will give you the relative size (1 down 512samples; 2 up 64samples) of the single cycle.

I hope this helps.

What sampler are use using?

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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Baus wrote:2: Sample your material on the F3 tuned to -23cents. This will give you single cycle loops of 256samples. Transposing octaves up or down will give you the relative size (1 down 512samples; 2 up 64samples) of the single cycle.
So essentially, if you have a synthesizer with a controll for tuning in cents, you transpose your patch down 23 cents, and then sampler he f3? Excellent idea!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by madtheory » Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:44 am

Autosampler in GarageBand can do this too. It's a scaled down version of Redmatica. I used it do build my sample packs. It takes a bit of setting up, and you might have to tweak stuff later, but it makes the job much easier than it was in hardware sampler days.

It's strange that Kontakt doesn't do autolooping. Do any of the other soft samplers do it?

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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by ninja6485 » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:59 pm

I don't think Maschine or short circuit do, but I'll explore them the next time I boot them up. The s2000's has a pretty decent auto loop feature, but I think it needs the right kind of sample, and it probably helps if you already have an idea of what the loop should be to start off with!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by Baus » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:37 pm

ninja6485 wrote:
Baus wrote:2: Sample your material on the F3 tuned to -23cents. This will give you single cycle loops of 256samples. Transposing octaves up or down will give you the relative size (1 down 512samples; 2 up 64samples) of the single cycle.
So essentially, if you have a synthesizer with a controll for tuning in cents, you transpose your patch down 23 cents, and then sampler he f3? Excellent idea!
Yes.

I learned this by working with the Ensoniq EPS-16 Plus and creating wavetables for this machine. The EPS-16 Plus in particular is very picky when you want to work with home-made transwaves. It works best (needs) single cycle loops of 256samples.

F key -23 cents does the trick.

FYI:
F2 -23 = 512samples; F3 -23 = 256 samples; F4 -23 = 128samples; F5 -23 = 64samples; F6 -23 = 32samples.

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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by Yekuku » Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:59 pm

thank you all for your input :)
Baus wrote: am not sure WHAT you are sampling but if it's your own synths then:

1: You might want to take a look a SampleRobot. It has a feature called WaveRobot that will find loops automatically. I have never used this software so don't ask me about it. I just read what it does.

2: Sample your material on the F3 tuned to -23cents. This will give you single cycle loops of 256samples. Transposing octaves up or down will give you the relative size (1 down 512samples; 2 up 64samples) of the single cycle.

I hope this helps.

What sampler are use using?
I am not sampling anything actually, I am building a personal sample library from sounds that I have made the last 20 years, most of them evolving atmospheres and SFX. I have quite a few hardware samplers so hopefully it will end up being in AKAI/Roland/Kurrzweil/EMU/Ensoniq format
What I am looking for, is a software that will automatically offer me a few alternative sustaining loops, let me choose / edit the section I want and save it as a Wav along with the sustaining metadata. Nothing fancy really, just some of the early nineties technology.
I havent used waverobot but i will check it out.


Nice tip about sampling, thanks for sharing.
madtheory wrote:Autosampler in GarageBand can do this too. It's a scaled down version of Redmatica. I used it do build my sample packs. It takes a bit of setting up, and you might have to tweak stuff later, but it makes the job much easier than it was in hardware sampler days.

It's strange that Kontakt doesn't do autolooping. Do any of the other soft samplers do it?
Hmm, it seems that Redmatica has been around for over a decade but I never heard of it.
It looks similar to Samplerobot, I will give this a try too.
ninja6485 wrote: The s2000's has a pretty decent auto loop feature, but I think it needs the right kind of sample, and it probably helps if you already have an idea of what the loop should be to start off with!
the s2000 was my first sampler, it had some cool features ;)
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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by Tidda » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:26 am

Baus wrote:
ninja6485 wrote:
Baus wrote:2: Sample your material on the F3 tuned to -23cents. This will give you single cycle loops of 256samples. Transposing octaves up or down will give you the relative size (1 down 512samples; 2 up 64samples) of the single cycle.
So essentially, if you have a synthesizer with a controll for tuning in cents, you transpose your patch down 23 cents, and then sampler he f3? Excellent idea!
Yes.

I learned this by working with the Ensoniq EPS-16 Plus and creating wavetables for this machine. The EPS-16 Plus in particular is very picky when you want to work with home-made transwaves. It works best (needs) single cycle loops of 256samples.

F key -23 cents does the trick.

FYI:
F2 -23 = 512samples; F3 -23 = 256 samples; F4 -23 = 128samples; F5 -23 = 64samples; F6 -23 = 32samples.
I checked the math behind the above claim and first of all, it checks out.
For completeness I would like to add that the above is for sampling frequencies like 44.1 kHz and 88.2 kHz.
If you want to do the same for 48, 96 or 192, (12 anyone?) kHz you should use F# +23 cents.

Tidda

p.s. if I recall correctly, the discontinued Creative/E-mu Emulator X3 had excellent auto loop capabilities.

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Re: Auto finding sustaining loops in samples ?

Post by madtheory » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:56 pm

Yekuku wrote: AKAI/Roland/Kurrzweil/EMU/Ensoniq format
Each of those machines have auto-looping onboard. If you want to create multiple formats then you're looking at a combination of Redmatica KeyMap (unobtainium) and Chicken Systems Translator.
Yekuku wrote:some of the early nineties technology.
Antares Infinity fits the bill :). It is still possible to buy this if you have an OS9 Mac or Sheepshaver to run it on. It doesn't batch loop though, whereas KeyMap does.

[rant]To be fair it is possible to find fairly good loops with Kontakt as it stands, but you have to work on each sample manually, looking for the points yourself, there's no batch processing, and it can't do guaranteed perfect loops every time like Redmatica or Infinity can. And you can't adjust the loop in real time which is really retarded. Literally. You have to re-trigger the sample each time. So it takes longer than it could. Kontakt has issues importing loops from Emu samplers- you have to tell it to "load loops from sample" for each program (but not each sample).[/rant]

Basically- no one seems to need/ want good sustain loops any more. We just use really long samples instead.

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