How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Pulling out your hair? Don't know what to do or where to go? Ask in here.
Forum rules
READ: VSE Board-Wide Rules and Guidelines

If your Help request has been solved, please edit your first post in order to select the Image Topic Icon to let others know your topic has been solved.

How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby Echase409 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:19 am

So the title pretty much says it all. I recently purchased a TX802. It is my first piece of vintage hardware gear so I have never had to deal with transferring sysex files over MIDI before on such a primitive interface. The following describes my settings so far:

-I am running MIDIOX on Windows 10.
-I have MIDI O/I cables running correctly between the TX802 and my Scarlett 6i6 interface.
-My Memory Protect is OFF in the TX802.
-"Voice data receive block" is set to 1-32.
- "Perform select channel by program change" is set to ALL.
- "System Exclusive device number" is set to ALL.

I can successfully export the INT patches from the TX802 to MIDIOX by pressing: UTILITY --> 1 (on the TX802)
On MIDIOX, I press "Send a System Exclusive File to MIDI Out Port" and choose the file I want to send to the TX802. (the factory preset patches for the DX7) On the TX802 screen it says "** MIDI bulk data received!" But after that I have no idea how to access the patches I imported. It does not have them listed in any of the 64 INT performance slots.

I am kind of pulling my hair out over this, especially since this is my first go at managing a vintage synth's sound library. I know its probably something simple I'm missing to make the puzzle pieces fit together, but I would really appreciate any help or guidance on the matter.

Additionally, if someone could explain to me the significance of "edit buffer" in the TX802 I would appreciate it! From what I've read so far, edit buffer is basically used to "audition" a patch before you permanently import it into your TX802. But I could be completely wrong about that haha.

Thanks in advance!
Ed
Last edited by Echase409 on Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Echase409
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby meatballfulton » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:13 pm

Stupid question: do you have the user manual? Get it here

As on some other Yamahas a patch is at a lower level than a performance. See pages 6 and 7 of the manual.
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.
User avatar
meatballfulton
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5537
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 pm
Gear: Live 9, Logic Pro X

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby desmond » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:36 pm

Regarding edit buffers:

Say a (hypothetical) synth has 10 memories. With no edit buffer, when you started editing patch 1, the data of patch 1 would be immediately changed/overwritten with your edits.

With an edit buffer, when you start editing patch 1, a *copy* of it's settings are placed into the edit buffer, and your edits change that. When comes time to save your edits, you can then choose which of the 10 patches to overwrite.

This gives some additional flexibility - for instance, when sending a patch from a computer to a synth via sysex, you can often send it to the edit buffer, so you can hear/play it immediately, without overwriting any of the existing patches in the synth. Otherwise, to hear/play it, you'd need to send it to one of the existing memories and overwrite what was there.

There are additional advantage for edits with a multi for example too.. Edit buffers are good things to have! :)
User avatar
desmond
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:32 pm

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby Echase409 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:36 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Stupid question: do you have the user manual? Get it here

As on some other Yamahas a patch is at a lower level than a performance. See pages 6 and 7 of the manual.


Yes, I do have the manual and have been referring back to it regularly to decipher what the on-screen messages mean on the TX802. I was thinking Page 32-34 was where I needed to look to figure out my sysex import dilemma. And yeah I know that patches and performances are different things, I am still getting used to that. I realize now that using those two interchangeably is not correct. Thank you for pointing that out! I guess my ultimate question is:

Once I send a sysex file from MIDIOX to my TX802 and have confirmation that the file was received on my TX802, what do I do/press next to complete the import and access the sounds on my device?

Thanks again for the response @meatball
Echase409
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby Echase409 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:44 pm

desmond wrote:Regarding edit buffers:

Say a (hypothetical) synth has 10 memories. With no edit buffer, when you started editing patch 1, the data of patch 1 would be immediately changed/overwritten with your edits.

With an edit buffer, when you start editing patch 1, a *copy* of it's settings are placed into the edit buffer, and your edits change that. When comes time to save your edits, you can then choose which of the 10 patches to overwrite.

This gives some additional flexibility - for instance, when sending a patch from a computer to a synth via sysex, you can often send it to the edit buffer, so you can hear/play it immediately, without overwriting any of the existing patches in the synth. Otherwise, to hear/play it, you'd need to send it to one of the existing memories and overwrite what was there.

There are additional advantage for edits with a multi for example too.. Edit buffers are good things to have! :)


Thank you so much for that explanation desmond, that makes a lot more sense to me than how the manual was wording it.
So basically once I send sysex files from MIDIOX to the TX802 and it has been received on the synth, those sounds are now in the synth's edit buffer? If that is the case, I would need to save the sounds in the edit buffer to the INT memory on the TX, yes? I realize that this would overwrite the current 1-32 memory slots. I have already saved the current 32 sounds to a bank on my computer so I'm not worried about losing them on the TX.

Thanks again!
Echase409
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby desmond » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:06 pm

Echase409 wrote:So basically once I send sysex files from MIDIOX to the TX802 and it has been received on the synth, those sounds are now in the synth's edit buffer?


I haven't examined the DX/TX sysex specs, but basically, usually there are sysex commands for sending a patch to the edit buffer, *as well as* commands for dumping a patch to a specific patch memory, and often a whole bank of patches in one go.

So it depends what messages you are using! Likely, you are just sending 32 patches to the 32 internal patch memory, and overwriting what was there, but it's difficult to know what you're doing without more info, obviously.

Echase409 wrote:If that is the case, I would need to save the sounds in the edit buffer to the INT memory on the TX, yes? I realize that this would overwrite the current 1-32 memory slots. I have already saved the current 32 sounds to a bank on my computer so I'm not worried about losing them on the TX.


Edit Buffers are usually for *one patch* only, to use for editing purposes (as described above). If you are dumping a bank of sounds, this won't be using the edit buffer, it will just be dumping patch 1 to the patch 1 memory slot, etc, up to patch 32 directly, overwriting what's there already.
User avatar
desmond
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:32 pm

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby desmond » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:09 pm

Echase409 wrote:Once I send a sysex file from MIDIOX to my TX802 and have confirmation that the file was received on my TX802, what do I do/press next to complete the import and access the sounds on my device?


If you've dumped, for example, a bank of patches to internal memory slots 1-32, all you need to do is select patch 1 (or which patch you want) and play.
User avatar
desmond
Active Member
Active Member
 
Posts: 614
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:32 pm

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby meatballfulton » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:28 am

What are the files you are trying to send? If it's DX7 patch banks for instance I think those do not have Performances, only Voices (patches).

A Performance in Yamaha-speak is a multitimbral setup, on the TX802 that has 8 parts. A Voice can be assigned to each part of a Performance. It only has pointers to the Voices, so if you load new Voices but not Performances the old Performances will still be there but should sound "wrong" because the Voices they need were overwritten. If you go into the Voice Select menu you should be able to scroll though the two banks of 32 Voices and see if the import happened.

For some reason, according to the manual you cannot initiate transfers of Performance data from the front panel, only Voice data. It says that Performance data can be transferred so I assume it requires sysex commands to do so. This is where editor/librarian programs prove their worth compared to simple sysex transfer programs.

That's the limit of my TX knowledge...
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.
User avatar
meatballfulton
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 5537
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 pm
Gear: Live 9, Logic Pro X

Re: How to Import Sysex/patches into Yamaha TX802

Postby Echase409 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:19 pm

meatballfulton wrote:What are the files you are trying to send? If it's DX7 patch banks for instance I think those do not have Performances, only Voices (patches).

A Performance in Yamaha-speak is a multitimbral setup, on the TX802 that has 8 parts. A Voice can be assigned to each part of a Performance. It only has pointers to the Voices, so if you load new Voices but not Performances the old Performances will still be there but should sound "wrong" because the Voices they need were overwritten. If you go into the Voice Select menu you should be able to scroll though the two banks of 32 Voices and see if the import happened.

For some reason, according to the manual you cannot initiate transfers of Performance data from the front panel, only Voice data. It says that Performance data can be transferred so I assume it requires sysex commands to do so. This is where editor/librarian programs prove their worth compared to simple sysex transfer programs.

That's the limit of my TX knowledge...


Thanks Meatball! I was confused at first regarding Voices and Performances but now I completely understand the difference between the two and the significance of each, with the help of your comments and some more reading of the manual.

As it turns out, I had correctly imported the Voices of the DX7 onto the TX802 from the very beginning, but just didn't know where to look (on the TX802) to confirm the import. Like I said, this is my first go at vintage hardware modules and classic MIDI I/O setups rather than modern USB MIDI. :lol: :roll:

Now my issue is correctly routing all my MIDI gear to their correct places, but I assume that is for another thread.

Thanks again for everyone's help!
Echase409
Newbie
Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:47 pm


Return to HELP!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Críoch and 11 guests