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noise problems on my juno60

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:43 am
by whirlbird
Hi everyone. I've been playing a Roland Juno 60 for the last year and a half. I bought it used on craigslist and generally it's been great. I've mostly played with it jamming with people and live. Recently I started to try to record with it and noticed some unwanted noise.

The noise is not like static or anything, it's kind of like a constant ringing underneath everything. It changes pitch when certain buttons are pressed, like some of the ones on the left of the synth I think, like the arpeggiator. This noise is noticeable on both amps and headphones. If I crank the volume it goes up quite a bit. Any ideas about what this is and how I can get rid of it? Sorry if I didn't describe it that well.. I'm pretty new to synthsizers in general and I'm not sure if there's a certain name for that kind of noise/problem. Let me know if any other information would help you figure out what's going on. Thanks so much for any help with this!

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:30 am
by mome rath
does it go away if you turn the chorus effect off?

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:53 am
by whirlbird
no it doesn't go away when the chorus is off. the quality of the sound does change with the different chorus settings though.

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:14 am
by Joey
it might actually be your white noise generator...

the one on mind kinda gets stuck sometimes and gets activated if i use the sub osc or keyfollow slider

what i usually do is just slide htem up and down a bunch of times, and the noise one, and they go back to normal

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:08 pm
by whirlbird
thanks for the ideas both of you. i appreciate it.

however, i don't think it's the white noise generator. the noise slider doesn't seem to affect it. and if it was that, wouldn't the sound be like white noise? the sound really isn't like static or noise, it's more like a mess of notes ringing out and sustaining underneath everything. there's definitely more pitch to it than just nosie.

also, i noticed that when you do something like turn the chorus on, it sounds kinda like chorus is added to that sound. it gets more warbly like that. any other ideas? i really want to be able to record with this synth but this sound is always picked up when i try to.

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:19 pm
by SynthiChris
Could be something simple, make sure your using a good 1/4 in connection, or your power cable is not frayed or is old. Also, check to see the Impedance on what ever Amplifier, Stereo, or Monitors your using, could be causing the distortion

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:33 pm
by Pilot352
I'm not 100% sure but doesn't the 60 have a similar problem like the 106 (i.e. "hanging note")? You know, the leaky VCA chips. Your description of it changing frequency when notes are played sounds allot like the VCA leakage problem on the 106.

Anyway, doesn't this belong in the "help" section??

-Pilot

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:54 pm
by nathanscribe
The way the problem is described, it sounds to me like some kind of digital noise - like interference from the CPU into the audio signal or something similar. It's not the white noise, it doesn't sound from the description like hanging notes. It sounds like what happened to my old TB-303 when I cranked the volume up really high - I could hear the clock pulsing away in the silence between phrases, and a low, ring-moddy sound. It was interference, basically. I was running it on a crappy power supply, DC-daisy-chained with a 606.

Check your setting of volume etc - check the output level switch is set approprately - and try it with just headphones, not plugged into an amp/mixer, and nothing else switched on.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:29 am
by Pilot352
nathanscribe wrote:...it doesn't sound from the description like hanging notes....

I dunno, the description here sounds like "hanging notes" to me!!
whirlbird wrote:...the sound really isn't like static or noise, it's more like a mess of notes ringing out and sustaining underneath everything. there's definitely more pitch to it than just nosie. ...
But who am I? You may be right. The synth isn't in front of us, so who knows!!!

-Pilot

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:11 am
by cbjlietuva
My Juno 6 does the same thing, and it annoys me to no end.

I haven't made a concerted effort to nail it down, but based on my experience i would speculate it has to do with 1) what type of amp, mixer, or interface you are using it with and 2) the output level [the switch on the back] of the synth.

again, speculation, but it could also be: 1/4" cable connections (internal wire integrity), some non-catastrophic short in the wiring- the wiring, even the connectors, in mine- though the unit is in great shape- is twitchy, the biggest one being the pitch/modulation connection to the main board.

Mine has been intermittent and for the most part when I'm recording it has been relatively silent. but occasionally the noise comes back.

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:26 am
by justinvm
Allot of my analog gear does this. I'm actually hearing it on my chroma polaris at the moment. But it was extremely noticeable on my roland sh-3a.

But back to juno 60. If you turn all oscillators off and noise source you will still hear high pitched oscillation which can strangely be tracked by the keyboard. The VCA level does not effect this from memory so I assume the leakage is directly into the final output op amp of the synth.

So if you're trying to diagnose the problem I suggest first doing what I did above. Create a patch with no oscillators nor noise selected. See if the VCA level control has any impact on this noise? If it doesn't then I'd say look around the final AMPLIFICATION stage (the one that is controlled by the master volume knob).

Not sure how the keyboard tracking comes into play. Any sort of leakage I've always attributed to poor grounding. But there may be some sort of filter circuit to prevent noise from entering the final OPAMP. On my chroma polaris I have only assumed that my replacement OP amp is causing the issue because it is improving the sonic range of the instrument.

- J

Re: noise problems on my juno60

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:37 pm
by rhino
my 2cents

check to see if former owners have had it apart and not re-connected ALL the ground wires between boards.
the wiring in these old beasts are full of stray signals. also, some old synths have (or had) metal shields over/around certain circuts. these are generaly tossed anytime someone pokes around inside. many other analog guys have picked up low cost noise gates for these things.

Re: noise problems on my juno60

Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:03 pm
by Bross
I encountered this problem with hanging notes on a Juno-60. The problem went away by fidgeting with one of the wiring harnesses running up the middle. I guess something was inducing a little current in the envelope signals. Try opening it up, plugging it in, powering it on, and moving those around to see if it gets louder or softer. Of course be careful while it is plugged in.

Re: noise problems on my juno60

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:30 am
by whirlbird
Thanks for the ideas so far everyone. I didn't have the Juno with me for a while so I didn't try to figure this out, but now I have it again and would like to finally get it working so I can do some recording with it.

It seems like I should be sure of the problem before I open it up. Especially because I'm not very experienced with electronics stuff. Is there any easy way I could post a sound file so you guys could hear what I'm talking about? When I tried to attach a sound file it said mp3 and wav aren't valid extensions for attachments.

Re: noise problems on my juno60

Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:55 am
by wesleymino
I can't add any information but I wanted to chime in and say that i experience the exact same symptoms with my Juno 6, a faint ringing sound that is always present. using different cables/mixers/amps has no effect, it's always there, at headphone output as well. it's quiet enough that i often don't notice it in recordings, but when tracking quiet parts with lower filter cutoff it's pretty obvious and bothersome. Interested to hear any new information about this!