Juno 106S Trouble..

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FluoD
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Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by FluoD » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:03 pm

Well im not surprised by this but i think one of those terrible chips is failing on me. After 10 minutes playing (warm up time i guess) i get hanging on voice 4. (the note keeps playing at a quieter volume for ever on voice 4, just making sure to myself that i understand what is happening)

Anyways. so if this is that damn ROLAND 80017A chip, any tips for replacing it in a 106S/HS60 which is what i have.
(more about the layout and stuff, taking it apart, i dunno just if anyone has done this on a 106S/HS60 tips would be great.


And then extra q's

in my research it is sometime suggested to callibrate after replacing, sometimes advised to just replace the chip. Is callibration neccessary? it might be preferable but i dont have the money to buy the equipment for it or take it across the country for synth servicing. (Student)

Then soldering. i've no real experience beyond a little at school and i could get my Dad to help, any bad practices to avoid? could i accidentally do more damage than good? i spose i could take the board to a local electronics shop and get them to replace the chip, if i provided the parts. Anyway.

Thanks in advance and sorry for being such a noob. I have to learn somehow though, and you seem a friendly lot!

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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by cornutt » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:50 pm

FluoD wrote:Anyways. so if this is that damn ROLAND 80017A chip, any tips for replacing it in a 106S/HS60 which is what i have.
IIRC, the 106S uses the same module board as the regular 106, it's just in a different place. It's easy to spot. Allow me to suggest that you read these:

* Sequence15 Juno-106 repair Part 1 Part 2

in my research it is sometime suggested to callibrate after replacing, sometimes advised to just replace the chip. Is callibration neccessary?
I'm afraid the voice with the new chip will stick out like a sore thumb if you don't. At the very least, you should check the power supply voltages (which you can do with a $20 DMM), DCO control voltage offset (DMM again), VCF cutoff (by ear; the Sequence15 writeup explains how), VCA gain (guesstimate it by ear), and noise level (by ear, if it seems too loud or too quiet in patches). If you can borrow a scope from school (do they have an EE lab you can take the synth over to?), you can do everything except the chorus DC offset, which seldom needs adjusting anyway.
Then soldering. i've no real experience beyond a little at school and i could get my Dad to help, any bad practices to avoid? could i accidentally do more damage than good?
If you're halfway decent with a soldering iron, it's unlikely you could hurt anything. You already know which voice has the dead 800017A, and they are clearly marked on the module board (except for some early-production ones). The recommended procedure for removing the dead IC is to simply bend it back and forth until all the pins break off; it won't take many cycles. Then, you can unsolder and pull the pin stumps, and solder in the new IC. Getting all of the solder out of the holes after removing the old one is the hardest part. The one thing you want to make absolutely sure of is that you put in the new 800017A the right way. All six of them face the same way, so this is not hard to check.
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FluoD
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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by FluoD » Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:23 pm

Wow thanks for your help. its just getting the confidence to actually go and open it i guess. Especially given i havent had it long.

sorry to be like a pestering kid but does it matter if you dont do all of the callibration stuff. i.e oscilloscope stuff.

and secondly that guide is good but then really suprising vague at the calibrating the VCF width stage. i.e number 8, again he must do that by ear. but any help would be appreciated

OH by the way. in the callibration guide it says like tune to a pitch. could i use that as a callibration method, play a pitch and tune the vcf frequency and width to it. (sorry for vagueness but copying out the callibration manual is not constructive) or would that kind of callibration be too vague.

http://www.sid6581.net/synths/juno/j106cal2.jpg on that link stages 7 and 8.

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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by cornutt » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:29 pm

FluoD wrote:sorry to be like a pestering kid but does it matter if you dont do all of the callibration stuff. i.e oscilloscope stuff.
I would at the very least check the power supplies and make sure they are not over the specified voltages. Other than that, there is nothing in the calibration that can hurt the synth if you don't do it. The worst that can happen is the synth might not sound as good as it can. You could try doing the replacement, fire it up, and play it some to see how it sounds. Personally, I hate when the individual voices on a polysynth aren't in tune or aren't playing at the same level.
and secondly that guide is good but then really suprising vague at the calibrating the VCF width stage. i.e number 8, again he must do that by ear. but any help would be appreciated
It's vague because the adjustment interacts with the other VCF adjustments. Yes, when I wrote that, I did all of the VCF adjustments by ear. The previous calibration, I had access to a frequency counter and used that, but honestly, I don't think the results were any better.
OH by the way. in the callibration guide it says like tune to a pitch. could i use that as a callibration method, play a pitch and tune the vcf frequency and width to it. (sorry for vagueness but copying out the callibration manual is not constructive) or would that kind of callibration be too vague.
Sure, you can tune to some other source of pitch. If you have another synth handy that you know is in tune, you could use that. But you can also use the 106's own DCOs, which don't drift. If you go back and read what I wrote for step 7, it explains how -- you use the DCO pulse wave, and tweak the PWM so that it sounds similar to the filer self-oscillation. I personally think I get better results tuning by ear, as long as I have a reference.
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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by FluoD » Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:41 pm

HAHAHA. i didnt realise that was your own guide. haha sorry, i referred to you in the third person. but anyway thanks for the help,
its great to have such a helpful community for this sorta thing. and i know i porbably ask dumb questions but i'd rather be safe and sure, than mess up my new pride and joy :P

You should have said it was your won guide or maybe i should've twigged :D

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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by cornutt » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:42 am

No worries. Yeah, Sequence15 is my blog. I'm only averaging about one post a week, though. :?
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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by KennaOkoye » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:21 am

Hi, just to be clear what are the tool checklists!?

Just an Oscilloscope??

thnx

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Re: Juno 106S Trouble..

Post by KennaOkoye » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:52 pm

Any Oscilloscope? or.... thanks

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