Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

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aredj
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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by aredj » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:17 pm

Yeah... go with the BCR... (looking at the MPK49 manual - no to sysex strings.. )
Its not going to work out of the box... But it can be done... Theres a 3rd party editor that really opened up the programmabilty of the controller (for PC tho... not sure about the mac route)

Hacked firmware? I didnt do that... I'm gonna look around about that...

Keep this site handy... It has all you should need to get you configuring your BCR with sysex strings... http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/bc2000/

About the crashing M1000 - Has this happened to anyone else out there? That sounds pretty extreme...
Why would there be all this editing software for the M1000 if it works like garbage... ?

Not that I don't believe you or something silly like that Altitude... but wow... I imagined it working better than that...

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Altitude » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:09 pm

Your the one who actually turned me on the the bcr editor btw.. and yes i understand that technically it is not a hacked firmware, just a third party editor that goes well beyond what the device is capable of using the Behringer software.

When I say "crashing", what happens is the thing freezes for a second or two and will do random stuff (hold note, weird noises, etc). The editors are usable, but there is no real time tweaking to be had and what you are left with is tweak parameter, play note, tweak more, play note and so forth.

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by aredj » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:04 pm

Ahh.. ok.. Understood...

Again the M6 responds like that for a few parameters... thankfully most do not... Too bad the M1000 seems to be brutal in that regard...

I really want a M1000 to fill the 1u rack space in my flight case for live gigs... (mks50 is just not cutting it)
Gotta grab one before those prices start going into space (maybe not soon but someday probably... maybe.... )

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Altitude » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:40 pm

I am curious if anyone has A/B'd the different ROM revs for the M1k for to see if there were improvements in this regard since it is really something to do with how the sysex is parsed that is causing the issue. Using the assignable controllers, it works flawlessly but those are stored on a patch by patch basis so you cannot assign anything globally and copying a ROM patch to RAM, then changing the controllers is just a pain in the a*s.

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by cornutt » Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:33 am

Do you guys that are having the problems with tweaking the M1000 know exactly what sysex sequences are being sent? There's one set of sysex commands for modifying the edit buffer, and another one for writing directly to the patch memory. If you use the latter, I could see it behaving tha way.
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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Altitude » Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:05 pm

cornutt wrote:Do you guys that are having the problems with tweaking the M1000 know exactly what sysex sequences are being sent? There's one set of sysex commands for modifying the edit buffer, and another one for writing directly to the patch memory. If you use the latter, I could see it behaving tha way.
Unless the 1000x editor, midiquest, and the cykong device panel all used the wrong set of commands, then I would have to say that the edit buffer one was used since they all behaved the same way. This has been discussed a number of times here and I have never seen a clear reason why it happens nor a suitable solution

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by cornutt » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:19 pm

Altitude wrote:Unless the 1000x editor, midiquest, and the cykong device panel all used the wrong set of commands, then I would have to say that the edit buffer one was used since they all behaved the same way. This has been discussed a number of times here and I have never seen a clear reason why it happens nor a suitable solution
The reason I ask is because I haven't seen this problem. I'll have to admit I haven't tested it extensively either, but I did a couple of things with drone patches on the M1000 where I tweaked it while notes were sounding, and I didn't run into this. So I don't know if it's that I use M1000X as my editor, or if my M1000 is "special" in some way, or if I just haven't played with it enough to run into the problem. I'm away from home this week, so I'll have to try it this weekend after I get back.

As far as using the "wrong" set of commands: It's possible. The thing is, the M6 doesn't have a proper edit buffer; there are a lot of parameters that can only be changed by writing to patch memory on it. So if someone were writing one profile to cover both models, it's quite possible that they'd use the sysex strings that write directly to patch memory. The M1000's edit buffer uses a different set of sysex parameters which are ignored by the M6. I wrote M1000X to use the edit-buffer sysexes (that's why it insists on knowing which model you're using).
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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Altitude » Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:54 pm

cornutt wrote:
Altitude wrote:Unless the 1000x editor, midiquest, and the cykong device panel all used the wrong set of commands, then I would have to say that the edit buffer one was used since they all behaved the same way. This has been discussed a number of times here and I have never seen a clear reason why it happens nor a suitable solution
The reason I ask is because I haven't seen this problem. I'll have to admit I haven't tested it extensively either, but I did a couple of things with drone patches on the M1000 where I tweaked it while notes were sounding, and I didn't run into this. So I don't know if it's that I use M1000X as my editor, or if my M1000 is "special" in some way, or if I just haven't played with it enough to run into the problem. I'm away from home this week, so I'll have to try it this weekend after I get back.

As far as using the "wrong" set of commands: It's possible. The thing is, the M6 doesn't have a proper edit buffer; there are a lot of parameters that can only be changed by writing to patch memory on it. So if someone were writing one profile to cover both models, it's quite possible that they'd use the sysex strings that write directly to patch memory. The M1000's edit buffer uses a different set of sysex parameters which are ignored by the M6. I wrote M1000X to use the edit-buffer sysexes (that's why it insists on knowing which model you're using).
That's kind of why I was inquiring if there was some correlation between models/firmware revs since I have also run into ppl that don't seem to have this problem. For me, it was untenable and I did fairly exhaustive testing with it using 3 different midi interfaces and all the software I could find and had the same results on everything that I tried

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by cornutt » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:25 pm

I'll check the firmware version on mine this weekend.
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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Hollow Earth » Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:37 am

Altitude wrote:
Hollow Earth wrote:@altitude. ok it seems like the matrix 6r is the way forward.

anyone is there an alternative product to the doepfer drehbank? it seems to be discontinued.
Novation remote 0 or the Behringer BCR with 3rd party editor. The sysex implementation is straight forward (one variable type deal) but you need a controller that at least supports custom programmable sysex

*edit for clarification..
one last question! #-o

the novation remote sl (i need keys) is essentially the same as the novation zero in the spiel it says:
Novation wrote:Knobs/sliders/encoders can transmit any MIDI Continuous Controller, NRPNs, RPNs or up to 20 bytes of System Exclusive data; buttons can also transmit these options (though only fixed values for CCs, NRPNs and RPNs), plus MIDI Notes, program changes or MMC data (for customising remote sequencer transport control). It's also possible to customise data ranges, MIDI channels and Remote 25 output ports.
does that sound to everyone like it will be able to control a Matrix 6R? is 20 bytes of sysex enough?

many thanks! don't want to get the wrong thing...

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by aredj » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:01 pm

I quickly looked at the manual of the Remote SL and it looks like it can be done... and done well from the looks of it... (lots of looking there) :o

You can assign sysex strings to ALL the little doodads on it... joystick, buttons, pads...

Very cool... I didn't realize... What a handy little machine...

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by minime123 » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:12 pm

matrix programmers ARE extremely rare, but we actually have one on ebay about to end very shortly, so never say never.... the link's here if you're interested...

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/123synthland

mini
VINTAGE SYNTH DEALER
- We Buy Sell Trade Repair Vintage Synths
- We Buy Broken Gear & Parts Too...
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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Hollow Earth » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:45 pm

thanks aredj. here we go then!
minime123 wrote:matrix programmers ARE extremely rare, but we actually have one on ebay about to end very shortly, so never say never.... the link's here if you're interested...

http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/123synthland

mini
ha! that's so funny. i was looking at it earlier. i'd love one, but it is too expensive i'm afraid :-(

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by Hollow Earth » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:59 pm

would anyone be able to tell me what i should enter where here in the ReMOTESLEditor window?

http://www.hollowearth.org/dl/syx.png

I'm assuming it's some info from here:

http://wolzow.mindworks.ee/analog/m1k-midi-spec.htm

(determined to get this working!!!)

many thanks
(ps not much sense from novation support and manual deeply unclear)

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Re: Can a Matrix 6R control a Matrix 1000?

Post by aredj » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:31 am

06H - Remote Parameter Edit
F0H 10H 06H 06H <parm> <val> F7H

Thats from the site....

What you should be entering is

F0 10 06 06 (parm)

Parm being the value of what parameter you want to control. For instance (from the site 21 VCF freq 24 resonance)

So, cutoff should look like

F0 10 06 06 21

The novation will handle the value (0-64 on the matri <----thats me trying plural)
And the matri are pretty straightup sysex so you shouldnt have to worry about checksums...

I personally don't know if you need to do anything special to have the M1000 actually respond to that... (M6r must be in quick edit mode)

So hopefully this will get you going... try'er out...

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