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clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:03 pm
by The Road Viking
Okay. we have the equipment to make a really great rig for our keyboard player to get busy with making the audience go WOAH wutwuzzat? but unfortunately shes not that bright in the first place, let alone someone who is that bright couldnt just step up to the plate and look at the back of the rack and say duh, the virus goes into the oberheim into the da da da to the da da da. doesnt everyone know that? heres the skinny: weve got a roland sc 880, a Fantom XR, an access Virus rack XL, an Oberheim matrix 1000, a Novation A station, a mark of the unicorn midi timepiece, and a RANE sm 82 stereo 8 channel mixer topped with a furman power conditioner in the rack and were trying to hook them all together into a CME UFO and an Axiom 49 MIDI controllers :roll: #-o :?: [-o< I myself am the guitarist/ vox and i have a verrrry entry level understanding of MIDI prog. change signals and such just enough to operate my behringer midi footswitch to change my dist/reverb/vol/wah what have you and this is quite a daunting task for me to figure out here. after an exhaustive search for the manuals for all these, I nailed down the rolands, and thats about it. I apologize for the epic novel of an inquiry here - its available on 3 90 min. cassettes for those who prefer to hear my "dear god I have not a clue!" as read by Spirow Agnew's distant cousin. but I hope that someone somewhere will hear my befuddlement and type in their precious timesand here to guide me to the shores of synth-ccess. :D [-o<

Aaron Brown, The Road Vikings

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:46 pm
by Zamise
If you can't figure out how to chain them then go to your local Guitar Center and get a Midi Thru box. The trick is learning how to turn the volume down on the synths you don't want to play and up on the ones you want via the synth itself or the mixer. Nice bunch of rack synths you got there for your dumb female synth player, lets hope she's hot and you send us naked pictures of her playing on them.

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:25 pm
by Altitude
Why not just have them all receive on different midi channels so when she wants to switch, all she has to do is change the output channel from the controller? Assuming all those synths have midi thru on them, you just chain them from midi out of controller to midi in of synth A, midi thru of synth A to midi in of synth B, Midi thru of synth B to midi in of synth C and so forth. No need for a thru box

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:56 am
by The Road Viking
well. I appreciate the responses folx, really I do. I always have been illogically deterred from ever posting a question or really any sort of threading for sake of the fact its not a very stably interactive form of communicae, so this message in e-bottle concept of dropping a pile of letters in a chain in hopes of some other sentient entity stumbling over it, and feeling samaritanally inclined to squeeze out a reply that makes sense. (its the first time that this has ever happened to me. I feel like julia roberts in that stupid movie i never saw when she opens a mailbox and falls in love with keeanu reeves' from like two years before she got there... or some delusional claptrap c**p... Excuse me... *sniffle* :-& ) all that aside, I feel like thats a prime example of a forehead smacker. However my guitar Effects-Loop addled mind woulda thought off the bat at a glance to hookup the ufo ond axiom outs to the ins of the first module, and the out of that into the next module's in, and so forth and on out (but then where is the signal coming from?I.E. equivalent to guitar/instrument out...and wheres the signal going to, and out into what, like a Poweramp to loudspeakers? :shaking2: ) or maybe the 2 controllers into the timepiece's ins, and the outs of it into the midi ins of the respective modules, in my inexsynthesperienced MIDIntelligommonsense... I'm far more confused than you are at my wordsmithery. :lurk: anyway, Ill give the out/thru a shot. what Would the most sensible order of modules be? If it makes a difference...try shorthand... (module 1=say virus, into module 2=A station into 3=fantom, just because I am apparently incompetent at distilling my thoughts into a nice, efficient, condensed 3 sentences, doesnt necessarily negate my ability to understand those who CAN speak/type in the opposite fashion that I am now... :toothy10:

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:41 am
by The Road Viking
Oh. and Yeah, shes cute. Sorry no nudie pix . Despite her enourmously BAPH-fling array of uncouth and uncanny logic (?) and INCredibly Anomalous pathology (i cant even compose in my vast expertise of colorful descriptions and random parallel references illustrate a modicum of some of the bizarre surprizes [*understatement of the century*] that shes constantly topping) She IS a total loyal sweetheart and very high on my respect list, {Love ya, J.J.!} so Nope, not gonna advertise her in any desparaging light... Her trademark patented brand of left field is, despite its confounding nature, one of a kind, with a subtle aura of innocence and whimsy :3some: that really helps lighten any tension the air preventing clumping. :tongue7: :tongue8: :smilebox: :laughing3: :banghead: :withstupid: :shock: :? :blackeye: shes the Iodine in our granulated salt canister that is the Road Vikings. With all of its Mortony, pourable Goodness. But, If youre interested in seeing what we look like, (were still trying to nail down a suitable recording) check The Road Vikings myspace. I'm Aaron Brown. keyboards is Janelle James, and our Bass Player, Lisa Tonra is really hot too. Then theres Vinny Ray Vaughan on the other guitar and Dan Bryant (from hex, h**l and back, original singer for Cacophony, Racer X, more) On the OTher guitar and him and I switch up as Frontman. Retro 70s-80s Biker Rock. Really cool stuff. right now, your input is integral in our progress toward the first album. Kudos. :salute: :

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:54 am
by Altitude
The Road Viking wrote:... to hookup the ufo ond axiom outs to the ins of the first module, and the out of that into the next module's in...
No, you never connect the midi out of a module to a midi in of the next one. ALWAYS, the midi thru, not the out. The midi thru just forwards whatever data is being received at the midi in of the device. I would just connect half the synths to one controller and half to the other, or better yet, just use one controller for everything unless she needs to play two synths at once

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:15 pm
by Umbe78
I really like the way road viking writes ...
I don't understand a lot, but it is nice for me Italian..

It was Sandra Bullcok not Julia Roberts 8)

Re: clueless and trying to set up 5 rack modules to 2 midi contr

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:20 am
by Zamise
I went and looked at your groups pics on myspace, you guys are hells angels or giging for the blue oyster? Either way not folks I'd want to be tangling with... yeah your wording is pretty descriptive, not a prob, might want to cut back on the smileys tho.

Anyway, what the others have suggested is all worth a try.

I still think you might be better off with a midi thru box if you can't get them chained. Some of your synths are older, they may not have midi thru, some synths, maybe yours or not I don't know, but somtimes you can re-assign a midi out to be a midi thu in their setup utilities, however you might start getting some really bad midi lag when chaining more than a couple together. The more you chain the more likely lag and other probs will start to happen, especially when sweeping the pitch bender and or cut & res knobs on the controller. A midi thru box will help prevent that problem having them parralleled and receiving the signals all at the same time and not have to hope each synth can pass that info along as easy as the next one.

Personally, I've never used a midi thru box though, and I just keep my chain down to one or two synths, or just sample them, saves me having to buy an extra midi cable as well, so I may not be the best person to ask if you run into a midi thru box issue or want to know which would work best for your setup. I'd like to get one myself someday.

It wouldn't hurt any to experiment and see if you can do without a midi thru box tho, you might get lucky and just have the synths by themselfs chained in one after the other to the other to another and be OK. I'm assuming you know enough not to confuse the midi data signal cables with the analog sound outputs that would go in to the mixer from each synth? The order of them shouldn't matter in theory, but in reality it might, only way to know for sure would be through trial and error. Just give it a shot, if it don't work one way try another order. If you get them working all together it shouldn't matter, you should be able to get them all to play simultaniously and or individually, but assigning each a difrent midi channel probably won't let them play simultaniously, unless you get midi processor too I'm thinking placed between the keyboard controllers and the rest of the synths. Having them all play at the same time could be a really big and nice hugely layered unbelievable sound, so that is why I'm suggesting keeping them all on the same midi channel and using the synth's own master volume levels (*not the velocity level*) or the volume levels on the mixer with each synth's analog output on a seperate analog input on the mixer so you can fade them in or out of the mix with a simple fader or knob turn, I would hope its an easy solution for your keyboardist to manage.

If all the synths have analog inputs, its possible you could chain some or all of them together as well and get away without a mixer even, but with 5 synths I imagine a mixer would be a lot easier as long as you got enough inputs on it to handle 10 mono left & rights or 5 stereos.

The only thing you'd have to worry about then is setting the synths up so their patches don't change banks when you change one of the other ones. That can be a little tricky, but usually doable if they have a decent midi setup utility on the synths and some manual reading.

Did I read you guys are from LA? You've got to have some professional engineers that would be able to come check it out too in your area, pay them a few bucks to come hook it up and get it all done proper, hopefully maybe a good idea too? Since half of us here, including myself, don't know what we are talking about half the time.

Good luck, and happy satan worshiping :twisted: