Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

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T-John
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Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by T-John » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:12 pm

Hello fellow synth aficionados,


My recently purchased and orig. patch loaded DK 600 is acting up, big time. It turns on as usual, but won't respond to any manipulation beyond the "enter" LED blinking when I touch any button. I recently moved it to a new location, but took care to make the move as smooth as possible (flight case wrapped in blankets) and it worked without a hitch for the first two weeks in its new studio, then one sad morning it just went into hibernation. Any help would be greatly appreciated, as the unit is in perfect mechanic and cosmetic condition and I was hoping to play this baby into my old age...
Gear: Roland JP-4, Siel DK600, Yamaha CS-80

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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by Maschinengeist » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:29 pm

One frequent problem with moving is that the connectors might get loose. Open it up and make sure that all the connectors are correctly seated. That could solve your problem.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by T-John » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:27 am

Thanks Maschinengeist, I'll try that. But since it worked for a couple of weeks after the move took place, could loose connectors still be the cause..? I guess opening it up and taking a look will answer that.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by T-John » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:55 pm

Hello again,


I opened it up and aside from dust and the odd dead insect everything seemed fine. The connectors were securely seated in their sockets and now I'm not sure how to approach this. Is there a way of reloading the OS on the DK600, or am I asking an awful lot of early 80's technology? Any help rewarded with self-oscillation and lo-pass rumble..!
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by adamstan » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:58 pm

To reload OS you need [new EPROM chips] EPROM burner (and eraser if you want to reprogram old chips) and OS file - AFAIK SpaV posted the latest OS for Opera/DK600 somewhere in the forum.

It is also worth to mention, that DK600 suffers from battery leak problem, similar to KORG Polysix, which gives similar symptoms. So check that battery, and even if it didn't leak yet, replace it - and it is good idea to put the new battery outside the mainboard.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by Maschinengeist » Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:35 pm

Then the battery is to be checked (like adamstan mentioned).

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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by schmidtc » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:16 pm

I had installed a new battery before he picked it up a few months back.

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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by adamstan » Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:05 am

OK. So if the battery is new, it seems like EPROM or CPU problem. Mine is actually acting in similar way recently (however, sometimes it boots up normally, and sometimes it freezes) - I have to finally get this EPROM burner it seems...

But, such behaviour may be caused by one other thing - it may sound stupid, but always worth to check - TAPE switch position on the back panel . When the synth is switched to writing/reading presets from tape, it is locked up.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by T-John » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:12 pm

Hey guys,

Thanks for stopping by, schmidtc. Yes so the the battery was replaced by David White in Cambridge shortly before I bought the synth and there were no visible leaks or corrosion when I opened her up.

I got my hopes up after reading your post about the Tape switch Adamstan, because before I got the MIDI patch transfer working I was toggling that tape on/off like crazy attempting to do the transfer ol'skool style. Unfortunately, I made sure it was in the OFF position and regardless it's still in a coma... So EPROMs and EPROM burners, huh? That's a little more than I bargained for. A little bit of a vintage kick in the...wallet, pardon my French. Thanks for your input so far gents, if anyone has any more ideas please let me know. Much appreciated.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by Spav » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:51 pm

To check if the machine is running but stuck in tape mode, the mode LEDs should still operate to show the selected tape mode, if this looks like it is okay then it is almost certainly the tape switch. Download the circuit diagrams and check the switch is actually switching with a DVM. The first thing the code does when it enters the main loop is check the tape switch, if it is on it blanks the display and flashes the enter LED. the enter LED is flashed by hardware it alone is not an indication that the software is running. Another point to note about the tape switch is it actually provides a hardware reset to the CPU when the tape is turned off.

Check the PSU as well, when I dragged home my OP6, the thing looked like it would not boot. It turned out to be the PSU. I have also had a PSU failure in the EX6. The two faults were, the large dropping resistor (on standoffs) gets so hot it had unsoldered it's self and was making intermittent contact, the second was one of the variable resistors wiper was no longer contacting the track and as such one of the rails was rattling around.

Other simple checks watch the address and data lines make sure they are clocking after a reset, there is a reset button on the main PCB.

Guys if you have some 2532 EPROMS i can erase and program them, then send them back to you for postage only cost. Other options is get a couple on ebay and get them sent to me and I will ship them on to you programmed with the V3 code from SIEL. I would offer my upgraded firmware but I am not 100% finished yet and a few weeks ago I lost a hard disk with my only copy of the documentation for the new firmware. So I will have to rewrite it.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by T-John » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:02 pm

Spav, thanks a million. That's a ton of useful tips right there. I'll borrow a DVM and get to it. If that doesn't do the trick I'll see if i can't dig up some EPROMS (ebay, craigslist?) and take advantage of your generous offer to burn them. Thanks again, this is what makes this forum such an asset!
Gear: Roland JP-4, Siel DK600, Yamaha CS-80

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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by hageir » Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:24 am

Wow Spiv!

I just got schmidtc's (other?) DK-600,
it's in perfect shape but it's like a button is stuck on switching between modes,
BUT when I let it sit for like 1 and half hour (warming up the PCB probably)
it kicks into normal operating mode! (And my god does this synth sound good!!!)

Anyways,
where are you in the world?
If you're in the U.S. I might as well by a chip, have it sent to you and then back to me while I'm still here (I'm currently in NYC)
just to have a chip IF the OS on mine is messed up...

High-fives all around to us, Siel lovers :lol:
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by Spav » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:07 pm

hageir

Which mode switching are you referring to?

I would guess your problem is something like the one that T-John has, and the machine is not booting correctly. I would check the PSU in your case, this is very similar to my OP6 would sit looking stupid until the PSU settled.

I am in the UK so when you get home would be okay. If you get extra's I will burn my extended firmware when it is ready. That goes for anyone else that want's it.
Kurzweil K2500X +KDFX & K2500RS +KDFX | Korg Triton Pro & Triton Rack | Siel Opera6 & Expander | Boss BX-60 | Tascam US-1641 | Edirol UM550 | Sonar 8.5 Producer | Stageline PPA-100 | Roland KC350 & KC300
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by hageir » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:28 pm

Spav wrote:hageir

Which mode switching are you referring to?

I would guess your problem is something like the one that T-John has, and the machine is not booting correctly. I would check the PSU in your case, this is very similar to my OP6 would sit looking stupid until the PSU settled.

I am in the UK so when you get home would be okay. If you get extra's I will burn my extended firmware when it is ready. That goes for anyone else that want's it.

I was just referring to any of the push-buttons..
For example, if you press an unlit button it gets stuck in this "cycling" state (where it cycles, super-fast through the options of that button) -like the CPU thinks the button is being held down or repeatedly pressed :?

One night, when I was working on the DK-600 and trying to figure out what was wrong with it I jumped back for a couple of minutes to get something to drink and then I went into my computer and wrote some emails,
then I looked over and realized the synth was still sitting on the floor, turned on!
Then I noticed that none of the LEDs were blinking!
I walked over to it and it worked like new!

I could even save all the patches and everything!

So it works if you let it sit for 30-60 minutes or so :)

But you're in the UK,
that's good, so I can relax, go home and then we can work it out if I need a new CPU chip!
Coolio.
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Re: Siel DK 600 not responding, possible OS failure?

Post by Spav » Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:06 pm

News on the EPROM front guys.

Today I have ordered PCB's for my EPROM adapter for the DK600, Opera6 and Expander. It plugs into the sockets of both E000 and F000 and converts the addressing and CE signals to use a a single EPROM. The board can be configured for your favourite 27 series device. Supported devices are 27C64, 27C128, 27C256, 27C512, 27C010, 27C020, 27C040, 27C080.

The board also has a link option so that you can have two versions of firmware resident at the same time selected by a jumper, allowing the original code to be resident together with my new firmware.

The addressing is set so the code always occupies the first two 8K blocks of which ever device you select, making the programming of the device easy. I have used the prototype with a ROMulator emulating devices upto 27C512, so the search for 2532 devices may soon be over.
Kurzweil K2500X +KDFX & K2500RS +KDFX | Korg Triton Pro & Triton Rack | Siel Opera6 & Expander | Boss BX-60 | Tascam US-1641 | Edirol UM550 | Sonar 8.5 Producer | Stageline PPA-100 | Roland KC350 & KC300
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