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MIDI Sync

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:06 am
by nicknames
Sorry if I have posted this question on the wrong thread.
I and a friend of mine are having trouble syncing sequencers and loop devices.
We are running a KORG Electribe SX and a Kaoss Pad. The Kaoss Pad is used for looping synth lines and the ESX just for rhythmic patterns but after a couple of minutes they go out of sync.
Would a Midi patch bay solve this problem if i run the clock from my DAW?
I eventually want to have both of us loop on different devices without going out of sync.
This is for improv synthesized music so everything would have to be done on the spot.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:54 am
by Stab Frenzy
ESX Midi out -> KP Midi In

Set KP midi clock to External

Set KP Midi filter to ignore messages you don't need

Done

edit: This is with the KP3, might be different with one of the earlier ones.

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:28 am
by cartesia
if its the KP3 make sure you are running the newest OS!! The earlier ones suffered from sync issues.

.., and make sure you have clock set to Ext(ernal) on the KP3 and Int(ernal) on the ESX

Dont bother about putting out midi from your computer.. and a midi patch bay in this situation would be useless

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:05 am
by nicknames
Thanks, I updated the OS and it sync's a little better but still after 5 or 10 minutes its out.
We make 20 min tracks and it's a real headache when the timing starts to gallop.
Yes I have the correct settings with the clock source ESX set to internal and KP3 set to external.
I want to get 2 loop devices working together but not even 1 will sync correctly.
Has anyone come across this sort of problem before?
Thanks again

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:39 pm
by meatballfulton
I've read that synch works best with KP3 as master, have you tried this?

Disclaimer: I don't own either device, good luck

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:20 am
by nicknames
Yes have tried both master and slave and neither stay in sync.

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:30 am
by Dane_Xoth
You need to retrigger the samples every couple of bars.

The reason they 'drift out of sync after 5 min' is that the Loops are not of the same length. Say they are off by just a few samples, while they may seem 'close' or 'bang on' at first, the missing samples will add up over time.


Syncing the Clocks and having the audio 'syncronized' are two different things.

If i understand the problem correctly.

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:01 am
by nicknames
It sort of defeats the purpose of sampling if I have to re sample or re trigger all the time.
Is there any way to get it in sync or do I just have to change the way I make music?
If not I don't see the point of Korg releasing a product that is aimed at electronic music which its not suitable for.
How does everyone else sync their samples to sequencers?
Thanks for the help guys.

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:41 am
by Dane_Xoth
I'm not too familiar with the specific gear you have (although i have a ER-1 and a Kaoss 1).
The sampling i've done has been with either onboard graphic or a computer based wave editor. This way i know (and can edit) the precise length of my Loops (down to the sample). I still retrigger them anyway.

Retriggering shouldn't be an issue....since you are using sequencers anyway.
It's the difference between this:
0...................................
and this:
0........0........0........0.......

Re: MIDI Sync

Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:56 am
by nicknames
Thanks.
For this particular music I cant use the editor because everything played is spontaneous.We play everything live and multi track it on Cubase. I can't re trigger because that means that all the samples will have to be turned off in sections of the song just to get them back in sync again.
I understand that the sample is a fraction out but don't understand why it would be that slight bit out when the KP3 is receiving clocking info from the sequencer.
Is it because MIDI has a slow transfer rate which might make the signal lag?
If I set both ESX and KP3 to slave and use Cubase as master clock will this fix the problem or is it just a bug with the KP3?
I don't want to buy a MIDI patch bay if it wont solve the problem.
And I know that using MIDI through on the ESX wont work because the signal is linear taking more time to reach its destination.