Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

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Jay200MPH
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Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by Jay200MPH » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:31 pm

So I've been infuriated with the across-the-board split keyboard setting on my new-to-me Roland D10. After reading this thread and especially Charles' VERY HELPFUL post at the end of it, I seem to be having the same problem as the original poster. I downloaded the factory presets Sysex file and tried to transfer it using a MIDI monitor program (Midiox) but I kept getting errors on the Roland - MIDI Communication Error, Data Transfer Error, Data Mismatch.

Looking around a bit on the internet, it seems that you can't do Sysex dumps to D-series with newer USB-MIDI interfaces! They are somehow not compatible? This doesn't make sense to me - I thought MIDI was MIDI but many many posters on various forums have made this claim.

I have tried playing around with the packet size, buffers, and transmit delay in Midiox to no benefit at all - unless there is some "magic bullet" setting which I haven't found, I don't think that's likely to be the answer...

SO - that doesn't leave me with many options. I only have three laptops here, all of them modern USB machines and one cheap Ebay USB-MIDI cable that has worked 100% well with everything else I own. Could I use another synth (Microkorg? x0xb0x?) as a "buffer" and dump the Sysex via its MIDI through port? Or do I have to go buy an Atari ST off Kijiji now?

Any help is appreciated! I really want to get this thing into a usable state.

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by Altitude » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:21 pm

"Looking around a bit on the internet, it seems that you can't do Sysex dumps to D-series with newer USB-MIDI interfaces! "

Sounds like BS to me. Try something other than Midiox (its pretty fiddly with sysex) Electron C6 or Bome's SendSX would be good choices. I can do sysex dumps from my Wavestation SR which are HUGE, so the modern usb thing is not true..

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by madtheory » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:59 pm

Slow down the transfer speed.

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by Jay200MPH » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:41 pm

Have now tried with Bome's SendSX and with amidi (a console raw Sysex dumper for Linux) on two different computers, at varying transfer speeds, right down to the lowest speed supported by SendSX (like 900 bytes/s). Most of the time I get a "midi communication error" immediately but sometimes it will give me a "data mismatch" or other error. I've tried both .mid and .syx patch files from Roland and from other sources... No success.

I really don't know, I did find this:
http://www.patchmanmusic.com/FormatInfo.html

Key words being, "DO NOT use one of those cheap $5 interfaces- they do not work with this type of data. Stay away from them."

Well, I have a $5 Ebay special MIDI-USB so I guess that's what they're referring to, but I have a hard time buying that sysex data is somehow fundamentally different from other MIDI commands. Does that make any sense at all? I thought the cable interface was just a dumb data translator. Why should it "not work with" sysex?

Could I wire a MIDI lead to a DB9 serial connector and dump my data to the serial port from Linux? Is there a standard-ish way of doing that? That's way more involved than I wanted to get into but I have the connectors in my box of electronics bits. [Edit: I've just read up a bit on why this won't work without a bit of circuitry - different baud rates & I/O voltages. Oh well, was a nice idea.]
Last edited by Jay200MPH on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jay200MPH
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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by Jay200MPH » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:44 pm

BTW I've also installed an old Windows 3.1 program called D10 Control 1.0a which seems to see my D10 via the USB-MIDI dongle (the program has an automatic configure mode which works fine for example) but then claims it can't talk to it when I get out of the setup and try to launch the program itself.

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:00 pm

Jay200MPH wrote:I thought the cable interface was just a dumb data translator. Why should it "not work with" sysex?
Sysex msgs are larger (in general) than performance data (notes, controllers) and some MIDI hardware is overly sensitive when sending/recieving sysex. That's why sysex transfer software lets you tweak the transfer speeds and spacing between msgs.
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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by D-Collector » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:58 am

Up until I sold my D-20 in 2008 I used Sysex Solution 97. It was the only program I used and it worked flawlessly. I suggest you try it. I ran it on a windows 98 laptop with joystick port midi interface though, but I still run Win 3.1 synth librarians via the USB Uno interface so that should not matter much.

http://www.leafdigital.com/software/sysex/

It has librarian mode for a number of different instruments, among them D-110 which will do for any D-5/10/20 synth.

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by madtheory » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:06 pm

So... buy an M Audio MIDIsport. Rock solid.

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by Jay200MPH » Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:24 pm

Thanks for the helpful advice guys, I did end up eventually getting it to work. I was having the "best" luck with SendSX under WINE but it would get to line 91/166 of the sysex file and then the D10 would give me a 'data mismatch error', so I thought I was having file corruption issues (had a few different versions of the file from various sources around the web.) Re-downloaded the set direct from Roland (came as a .mid) and had the same result. Finally as I was about to give up, as a last-ditch effort I played that file from the Linux command line with amidiplay and it worked?! I have no idea why that one try was successful, I'd done the same thing previously and it failed just as much as with the sysex dumper programs. Oh well, I got it.

Yeah, I will eventually upgrade my MIDI interface but seeing as I'm presently unemployed and will be moving soon, I wanted to get it working with what I have...

In case someone finds this thread in the future I'm going to post this right here: do NOT perform the factory reset procedure (power on+tune/function/write) on your D5, D10 or D20 unless you know 100% for certain that you can successfully reload the patches via a sysex dump! Otherwise the reset will render it unusable! Seriously, someone at Roland deserved a smack in the head for that little "quirk".

Anyway, works now. :mrgreen: I do like a lot of the standard patches but I reckon some of them are going to get overwritten with my own soon.

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Re: Dumping Sysex files to Roland D10 with newer USB Midi

Post by D-Collector » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:35 pm

I think it has more to do with the evolution of computers, compatibility issues etc. than with Roland. I never had any problems with this on the D-20, but as I said, I used an older computer and OS.

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