Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

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MrFrodo
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Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by MrFrodo » Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:48 am

Here's a somewhat odd question regarding the compatibility of the Yamaha SY-77 with something like the TX-816.

Knowing very little about the 816, I assume that it can be programmed to function as a 4-part timbral module. What I'm curious to know is whether or not those four separate parts can be controlled or manipulated from the X/Y joystick of the SY-77 (or another vector model). Has that kind of interface already been designed, or would that kind of controller have to be custom made?
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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by calyx93 » Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:18 am

First, the TX-816 is 8-part multi-timbral since it has 8 TF1 modules in the chassis. It's a TX-216 with two TF1s, a TX-416 with four - you get the picture.

Second, the SY-77 isn't a vector synth nor has a joystick. You're thinking of the SY-22 or SY-35 (TG-33 too, but that's a module). If it's those, the Yamaha vector synthesizers that you're referring to, yes - the joystick can send MIDI CCs (two I think) to other gear. I personally haven't used my old TG-33 to ever control anything via the joystick. But I'm sure the manual (not in front of me) would have info on that.

Now, the only thing the 77 and 816 might have in common would be the basic DX FM parameters, but only up to a certain point. The 77 has more options and additions to its "AFM" engine. I do recall an app that allowed patch conversion, but it's been a long time ago. I think there are a couple folks around here that are quite familiar with the 77's, maybe they'll pipe in.

Hope that helps a little :)
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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by CS_TBL » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:21 pm

Even without the option to include AWM samples in the FM path (which usually results in pointless noise), the SY77 FM on its own is a generation beyond the TX816/DX7. Tiny differences, such as setting the phase for operators, three feedback positions and different waveforms. FM as a synthesis technology is certainly not dated, but you may encounter mere dated presets when you buy/download FM preset libraries, possibly a side effect of only few people being around who are able to get something practical out of it. But within the whole history of FM, the DX7 contains somewhat dated FM compared to what'd come after it (SY, FS1r, and also software with FM-matrices - which do make a landslide of a difference in operating). That's not to say that a DX7 is to an SY77 what a Juno6 is to a Supernova2, a DX7 is still vast, but even the few added extras of the SY mean a great leap forwards already. Having multiple feedbacks is very important, really.
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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by MrFrodo » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:40 pm

I appreciate both your responses. I hadn't done enough research to know that the 77 isn't a vector model and I should've said "SY-22." I've thought of getting a TG-33 instead of any 80's FM model, but I wasn't so thrilled with the idea of putting it in vector mode and going from 32 notes to 8. That's why I thought of the 816 in particular.
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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by calyx93 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:25 am

MrFrodo wrote:I appreciate both your responses. I hadn't done enough research to know that the 77 isn't a vector model and I should've said "SY-22." I've thought of getting a TG-33 instead of any 80's FM model, but I wasn't so thrilled with the idea of putting it in vector mode and going from 32 notes to 8. That's why I thought of the 816 in particular.
BTW - there are two "vector modes" on the 22/35/33. One AWM element and one FM - or two of each assigned perpendicularly to the joystick - only with all four elements activated (and no, you can't have all four as AWM or FM) does the 32-voice TG33 become 16-voice. The SY's are halved in that regard at 8-voice.

I also must add that even though the Yamaha vector synths feature an FM engine, it is a VERY simplified 2-operator version - nothing like it would be to work with an 816 which equals a total of 8 separate 16-voice/8-operator DX7 equivalents with a total of 128 voice polyphony spread amongst the 8 TF1 modules. It's quite a monster to be reckoned with and certainly is not even on the same level as the TX802 which you could be thinking of.

Frodo, if you can get hold of a TX816, and it's for a good price - consider yourself lucky - they weren't exactly plentiful and you still have to find a way to program it properly. IIRC, it can be done via a DX7, an old CX5 editor app or newer ones - not from the spartan TF1 panels.
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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by MrFrodo » Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:38 am

Thank you caly.
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Rest in peace, Dr. Robert Moog.

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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by wildpaws » Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:27 pm

@calyx93: A slight correction (I'm sure it was just a accidental mis-statement), the TF1 modules are 6op and not 8op. And I agree with you, the TX816 was a real monster and I have heard some good things done on them years ago. I don't often see one for sale and yes they are somewhat rare.
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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by goom » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:47 am

Yes, each of the eight TF-1 modules in a TX816 rack are essentially a DX7 Mark 1, as far as the voice architecture and parameters are concerned. I would recomend using a DX7 with the TX816, as this will allow you to edit the TF-1 modules directly from the DX7's front panel. I own a TX516 (five TF-1 modules) and a DX7 Mk1 (bought it while it was new) and really enjoyed the system back then. I've actually been thinking of bringing it out of retirement and running it through my modular.

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Re: Yamaha SY-77 >>>>>> TX-816

Post by 0e0 » Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:05 am

I would also consider the TG77 if you are going for the TX-816 style..as there are multiple outputs.

tonally they are different. I love the sound of the SY 77's FM.

j

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