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Modular synth

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:31 am
by muhammed
hi everybody
I've already purchased roland system100m ,ı will receive it in two weeks but I have no experience with modular synth before. I use semi modular korg ms 20 without patching :mrgreen: . there are a lot of inputs and outputs. on system 100m and I have no idea what is what. Actually I have alot of questions but let start with simple ones how to connect system 100m keyboard to 191j and What is tihis 'CV' how to understand whether my patching works or not. How to connect modules with each other to create sound .
my modules are 112,121,130 ,140
keyboards: 184
rack:191j
After receiving it I have to make a decision to buy second cabinet to expand my system 100m therefore ı need to learn playing in very short time period.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:27 am
by muhammed
you mean that even God cant help me

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:10 pm
by Stab Frenzy
It's basically like any other synth, you can have a simple VCO - VCF - VCA signal path with envelopes and LFOs modulating the filter and amp, use mixers to mix audio or CV, use multiples to route a mod source to multiple destinations, that kind of thing. Or you can get as complicated as you want, that's the joy of modular.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:00 pm
by Steve Jones
Download the ARP 2600 owners manual. It has a great introduction to synthesis section.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:09 pm
by muhammed
actually ı downloaded system 100m service manual it is too complicated like arp 2600 owners manual.
ı must be electrical engineer to understand manuals. I am going to dowload patched system 100m photos from youtube or internet and imitate patch settings then I replace the patch points to understand usage the system 100m.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:24 pm
by nathanscribe
Two things:

1) Service manual = technical information for repair. User manual = how to operate the synth. You want the latter, not the former.

2) If you already have an MS-20, you should be familiar with the basic structure of analogue synth signal and modulation paths. If not, you haven't spent enough time with it or given it enough attention. Back when I started with my first synth, a Juno 6, I had no manual, did not know anybody with one, and there was no way to just hop on Google and find one. Like many other people back then, I learned by trial and error. Even though a modular system is more complex, you can start very simply and learn quickly by methodical experiment.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:49 pm
by Stab Frenzy
A modular system is more complex if you want it to be, but at the same time it's more simple. If you just patch one osc to a VCF then to a VCA you've got an even simpler synth than a Juno.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:14 pm
by nathanscribe
Exactly my point - the Juno has a fixed architecture that, as a complete tyro, I found took a while to understand - even setting a null/basic patch without knowing what any of it did took some head-scratching. But absolutely, plug a VCO straight into a VCA, even without the filter, and you're off to just about the simplest start possible. Modules can be patched in as and when.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:44 am
by muhammed
Image
pls see the picture
I connected the modules with patch cables but no sound :(

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:45 am
by muhammed

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:15 pm
by nathanscribe
Don't you need to connect the output of the VCA to the patch panel?

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:27 pm
by pflosi
You should use the 'VCA out' on the 130 to connect to your mixer / DAW / whathaveyou (the jack on the bottom you marked is just a 1/8=>1/4 jack adaptor, no?). Also, make sure the filter and VCA are open, on the pic you posted the input levels (both 121 and 130) are a bit low and the VCF freq is half closed.

Edit: Nathan beat me...

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:18 pm
by muhammed
you are genius guys :))
http://postimage.org/image/i3k37jj0h/155d97f6/
I connected vca out on 130 to jack 'A 1' on the 191j and ı connected my headphone to jack 'B 1' on the 191j.
but ı think that jacks on the 191j (A1,A2,B1 AND B2) are made for headphone outputs. A1 AND A2 for input for signals ,B1 AND B2 for headphone outputs right?
there are multiple jack on 191j What are the use of those ?
ı have 184 polyphonic keyboard ı connected kcv1 and gate1 on 184 to cv in and gate on 191j . ı want the use it as two voice synth where is the second cv in and gate on 191j?
in the meantime it has very tiny sound :(( not like my ms 20 or yamaha

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:59 pm
by Bitexion
Here's a fairly complicated patch on my analogue systems modular..just to show you how messy it can get. But you just take one thing at a time, and add onto it. Nothing can ever be broken by inserting cables. Just have the "out to in, out to in" philosophy while you're making the sound. If there is no sound the audio chain is broken somewhere, look over it again, check if some output lvl is set to zero etc.

Image

Download the moog modular V demo from arturia, then you get a good look at the factory sounds it comes with..

Usually everything is out to in, for instance a saw out to mixer in, mixer out to filter input, filter out to vca in, vca out to speaker.

But some modulations like envelope generators and LFO's are patched in from "outside the chain", then you patch the LFO/EG out to whatever you want to modulate, like oscillator pitch or filter cutoff's input.

The huge module on top is a step sequencer. On top of that is an effects unit. The one with bright green light in a MIDI/CV converter with lcd panel.
My system has 3 oscillators, 2 filters, 2 mixers, ring modulator, LFO, 2 EG's, VCA, a step sequencer and some other useful control modules.

Re: Modular synth

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:42 pm
by pflosi
muhammed wrote:there are multiple jack on 191j What are the use of those ?
ı have 184 polyphonic keyboard ı connected kcv1 and gate1 on 184 to cv in and gate on 191j . ı want the use it as two voice synth where is the second cv in and gate on 191j?
in the meantime it has very tiny sound :(( not like my ms 20 or yamaha
The multiples are just that - multiples :) those jacks are connected and intended to be used as splitter, so you can route a cv or audio signal to multiple destinations.

For two-voice action, you need to connect two oscs and two VCF / VCA to the keyboard, without using the 191. So KCV1 goes to 'Mod 1 in (KYBD)' on the first 112, KCV2 to 'Mod 1 in (KYBD)' on the second 112. Gate1 goes to the first ADSR (which goes to the first VCF / VCA), Gate2 to the second ADSR, etc. Not sure whether your system is big enough for true two-voice-action (as I described it, with individual ADSR, VCF, VCA for each voice)...

As far as tiny sound, I don't know whether it's normal or whether it might need some recapping, or whether you set your levels too low on the modules, or something else... If you only tried it with headphones, I'm not sure, but I think those jacks on the 191 are not headphone outputs - headphones need high levels, i.e. headphone preamps. So try it with a DAW or mixer. Apart from that, I know that the MS20 has a fairly hot output compared to other synths in my collection, so maybe it's normal.

Hope that helps,

All the best