Difference between Frac rack and Euro

[Jabberwalky]

Difference between Frac rack and Euro? From everything I've found they appear to be the same size (3u, 5.25in high).

[pflosi]

Yeah it's the same rack height (3U). AFAIK, Frac is 15V peak to peak, while Euro is 12V. Frac modules also tend to be deeper (in dimensions, not functions).

If you intend to go modular, Euro is the place to be... Nowhere else do you find so much different modules.

[meatballfulton]

Frac Rack is mainly Blacet, the format was invented by pAiA but their modules use different power connectors.

Frac modules are not physically interchangeable with Euro.

Definitely running a weak third place against Euro or dotcom/MOTM 5U.

[Jabberwalky]

Awesome, thanks for the insight guys. Basically, I'm getting ready to build a Paia 9700 modular, but I know based on reviews that it lacks some multiples and attenuators. This is all in the future, but I'd like to be able to build upon the base Paia modular with other things, so I don't want to box myself into a corner. I appreciate the help!

[Stab Frenzy]

They will be compatible from the point of view of patching them together, but you would have to have a row of Frac and a row or Euro, they won't go together in the same enclosure. They're both V/Oct so you can freely patch CV from one to the other, the 9700 runs on +-15V to Euro's +-12V but the signal levels are basically the same.

A good cheap starter system would be a 9700 and a Happy Ending Kit both racked in a 6U rack, that way you'd have the basics from the 9700 covered and could add functionality with the Euro.

[Jabberwalky]

Cool, thanks Stabs. I'll look into that!

[Bitexion]

Can't you get around multiples by using stackable patch cables? I dunno if stackable minijack cables exist, though.

[Stab Frenzy]

Can't you get around multiples by using stackable patch cables? I dunno if stackable minijack cables exist, though.

What stackcables do you know exist then?

[Jabberwalky]

Is this what you mean? http://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptopaudio/stackcable/

[Stab Frenzy]

Yep, they're minijack so will work with both Frac and Euro.

[pflosi]

Just don't use them to mix stuff together... Only multing.

[Bitexion]

I just patched up 3 VCO's on my modular to mix them in the multiple, seems fine. They track pitch accurately still, they just sound like 3 vcos mixed together at 100% volume.

Why wouldn't using 3 stackable cables work the same way as a multiple? The multiple I have is a powerless module, I think they're just 4 inputs soldered together?
Or there could be some stabilizing circuitry between the sockets.

[Stab Frenzy]

I just patched up 3 VCO's on my modular to mix them in the multiple, seems fine. They track pitch accurately still, they just sound like 3 vcos mixed together at 100% volume.

Why wouldn't using 3 stackable cables work the same way as a multiple? The multiple I have is a powerless module, I think they're just 4 inputs soldered together?
Or there could be some stabilizing circuitry between the sockets.

When you use a mult to mix signals you're driving the output stages of each of the sources with each of the other ones. Apart from that it doesn't actually mix the signals cleanly it can destroy the output stage depending on how the stage is constructed. This is because output stages are typically low impedance and want a high impedance input to plug into. Plugging three low impedance output stages together drops the load each stage is seeing even further (Ohm's law when adding resistances in parallel) which means each stage will be having at least twice as much (probably more) current drawn than it was designed to, which is when things get hot and start popping.

I guess you're lucky that the VCOs you shorted together have idiot-proofed output stages, but it's not something you want to make a habit of doing. The rule is that inputs can be joined to inputs, inputs and outputs can be joined together but outputs and outputs can never be.

[Bitexion]

I didn't think of it as shorting the 3 VCO outputs. I guess Analogue Systems put in some failsafes to prevent blowing stuff from "careless" patching. It's one of those things you're bound to try. "Multiple=mix several signals together, so lets plug all oscillators in there an see how it sounds!"

[pflosi]

Bad idea. There are mixers for that