Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs light

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gmeredith
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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by gmeredith » Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:07 am

OK just to check that it isn't the screen:

Does the backlight work, or is it completely dead in a dark room, no blue glow at all? You mentioned it's glowing, so this problem probably isn't what yours is but just in case:

If there is a dim or no backlight, it's probably the cause. Is yours dim, or nice and bright??

The FZ's and VZ's are renowned for their backlights dying (as are many synths). When the FZ/VZ backlight finally dies, the backlight EL sheet that glows goes high resistance, this causes the backlight power supply inverter (which eventually provides 90V AC to power the EL sheet) to go into oscillation - often a high pitched whine is heard coming from the screen also. This crashes the whole system and it won't boot, the screen is either garbled or nothing showing at all. This is a well known documented fault.

The solution: You need to disconnect the backlight AND also unsolder a tiny voltage step-up transformer mounted on the circuit board (on the FZ-1 it is on the main board - on the FZ10M it may be on the screen board itself). You have to remove of disable the transformer; This is the component that is affected (and the 2 transistors next to it) by the backlight going high resistance.

Hope that helps fix your FZ - again, it sounds maybe not since you implied your backlight is working. It took me a year to discover why mine kept crashing. It gradually started to glitch and get corrupt samples one day; then later the screen started getting scrambled in a couple of letters here and there. Switching it off and on again would fix it for a while. Then a while later, it would just self oscillate squealing and the screen blank. Again, switching it off would fix it. But it finally got so bad that it would immediately do it as soon as it was switched on. The squealing may not necessarily occur to crash it though, I only know what mine did.
Last edited by gmeredith on Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Casio: FZ1, CZ101, PG380, VZ10M, SK8, SK60, RAP10, DP1 drums, DH100, CDP200, DM100
Yamaha: TX81z, TX802, SHS10, DTXv2
Roland: SH101, DR660, MS1, PM16, TR33
Others: Korg MicroKontrol, ES-1, Alesis MMT8, Emu ESi2000 & card reader, BCR2000, V-Machine

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by db0451 » Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:29 pm

Hey, thanks for that. It's certainly very useful to know in any case. I had found plenty of stuff about the light, but I thought it was just about it going dim - I didn't realise it could take the rest of the sampler down with it. So, this added info is really handy. It'll go into my archive of useful documents for all these obscure old black boxes. :D

Perhaps it is related, although given the broken +12 V line, I suspect the problem lies elsewhere (on that rectifier's line). The backlight seems to illuminate dimly and whine a bit, but not noticeably worse in either sense that most of the other crappy ELs I've dealt with! My HS-2/E is also dim and a bit whiny, but the rest of the unit works fine. Elsewhere, my D-550 is almost as bright as new, whereas my TG77 was dim and so whiny that I had to disconnect the EL altogether to get the whine out of the outputs - you know it's bad when it's audibly crept into the audio path.

So, disconnecting the backlight is certainly worth trying. Even if that's not what fixes it, I'm not fussed about needing the light, and it would avoid future problems with resistance or whine in the outputs. So, once the other components arrive, I'll remove the EL from the equation at the same time as replacing those.

I'll look at the schematic later, but do you happen to know the part number or suchlike of this step-up transformer you mentioned? I presume it's obvious, but just in case. :)

Thanks a lot!

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by gmeredith » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:51 am

Bear in mind that I have the FZ-1, and so it might be mounted in a different place, but it is on p7 here of the FZ-1 service manual:

http://www.warningwillrobinson.com.au/m ... Manual.pdf

It's listed as a component called "ET16" at the bottom RHS of the page - an 8-pin IC looking diagram (it's not actually an IC, it's a little audio transformer with a traditional transformer appearance, about 1/2" cube in size or smaller). You also might have to remove the little transistor connected to it - it is the actual source of the oscillation, as it is a 12V DC -12V AC inverter (labelled 2SD400F). The transformer then steps up this 12V AC voltage to 90V AC for the EL foil.

Rather than removing it, you could cut the circuit tracks to its input side. That way, if you ever replace the EL foil with a new one, you can just re-bridge the tracks with solder to get it going again. I removed mine altogether because I put an LED backlight in mine because there was the room for it in the FZ-1 that isn't there in the FZ10M. I run it of a convenient 5V DC supply line on the main board.

Oh yeah - since' you're checking the 12V power rail for faults, make sure you actually check the big main power transformer outputs too - in case the 12V AC output windings have died. Use a voltmeter in AC mode, 20V range. As I recall, the mains transformer has quite a few output taps on it, all at different voltages. It may be the cause of that failed rail - p9 of the service manual has the transformer schematic. It's safe to measure with a volt meter so long as you cover up any mains connections attached to the transformer that are exposed, and wear some rubber gloves - the output side is only going to be AC 12V so it might make a noisy spark if shorted but won't be dangerous - however, **"*always handle mains equipment with great care"*** (*** generic mains power disclaimer) :)
Casio: FZ1, CZ101, PG380, VZ10M, SK8, SK60, RAP10, DP1 drums, DH100, CDP200, DM100
Yamaha: TX81z, TX802, SHS10, DTXv2
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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by madtheory » Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:21 pm

There's a 12 VAC winding? That's an expensive transformer! I assumed they just used a voltage divider of some kind. I haven't seen the schematic though.

@ db0451 If I was you I'd go back to square one and eliminate the backlight from the equation before doing anything else, seeing as it's the number one problem with these units.

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by db0451 » Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:15 pm

Hi both,

Thanks again! Quick reply as in a rush, probably more later :)

Ta for the advice re the inverter/vreg. Will disconnect that most likely as recommended - can't hurt.
Oh yeah - since' you're checking the 12V power rail for faults, make sure you actually check the big main power transformer outputs too - in case the 12V AC output windings have died. Use a voltmeter in AC mode, 20V range. As I recall, the mains transformer has quite a few output taps on it, all at different voltages. It may be the cause of that failed rail
Hmm, fair point, but as noted on the previous page, it looks to me as though the suspect +12 V and /RES signals both come from the S1WBA10 rectifier. I measured 20 V coming out of that, which sounds about right for eventual regulation down to +12 V? Of course, maybe the current is lower than it should be, or something... or, of course, maybe the EL is sucking it all away, depriving the +12 V and /RES supplies.
@ db0451 If I was you I'd go back to square one and eliminate the backlight from the equation before doing anything else, seeing as it's the number one problem with these units.
True, will do that first. Still need a new a fuse for the same S1WBA10 line, though! Got the new vreg/transistor that caps it off, in the mail today. As mentioned before, the fuse was previously fine, but a short when trying to probe the vreg drew too much and blew the fuse. These amateur technicians, huh? ;)

More exciting times ahead... :)

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by gmeredith » Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:27 am

There's a 12 VAC winding
Yes - actually there are 4 different voltage tap lines out - it has 8 flying leads! Big-a*s transformer weighs a ton, too. Ahh, the good old days..... :x
Casio: FZ1, CZ101, PG380, VZ10M, SK8, SK60, RAP10, DP1 drums, DH100, CDP200, DM100
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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by madtheory » Thu Dec 18, 2014 11:51 am

Jeepers. A pretty serious machine! Casio really were cutting edge back then.

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by gmeredith » Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:06 pm

You bet! They had the best guitar synthesizer in the world, in my opinion, back in 1988 - the Casio PG380 synth guitar. I have one that I use in my band currently. Perfect tracking, great Ibanez-based strat guitar (same company as the Roland ones) almost zero latency - way better than any of the Roland systems. Built-in VZ synth module and tuner!
Casio: FZ1, CZ101, PG380, VZ10M, SK8, SK60, RAP10, DP1 drums, DH100, CDP200, DM100
Yamaha: TX81z, TX802, SHS10, DTXv2
Roland: SH101, DR660, MS1, PM16, TR33
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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by madtheory » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:14 am

Yes even the plastic one was really great. Such as shame they got out of the synth market.

Next project for Hideawaystudio: restoring Tomita's Cosmosynth! :)

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by db0451 » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:34 pm

Is that an actual project or just a wish? If real, got a link to it?

I wish I had ordered the fuse from somewhere that would not take weeks to deliver. I would like to get this fixed (or possibly flipped) as soon as possible. Also, I would need to put an HxC in it, and that is an payment I would like to get out of the way as soon as possible, but definitely not until I know for sure that it will have a working unit to go into.

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Re: Casio FZ-10M fails to start/freezes—only screen & LEDs l

Post by Jaytee » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:17 am

This is a long shot, but on the off-chance you've given on on this guy, I am actually looking for a busted FZ unit. PM me if you want to talk, maybe I have something you want...

And if you're not interested, how about an update on your progress? I love a good repair story.

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