CS1X MIDI in/out not working

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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:28 pm

Rasputin wrote:... Connect the 2nd MIDI keyboard you have to the MIDI Thru of the CS1X and try to get it to respond. That will test if the MIDI Out jack is physically bad. If it's electrically bad then both MIDI Out and Thru will not work, but if MIDI Thru works but not MIDI Out then it's probably a busted out jack.


This sounds like a good idea. Will try this before taking it apart.
Edit: forgot I don't have the bloody cable... :lol:
Last edited by sgsii on Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:34 pm

ʝɵʝɵ wrote:I might be stating the obvious, but did you try changing the three-way switch next to the MIDI connectors on the CS1x to different settings? IIRC it had three settings PC1, PC2 and MAC, and one of the first two is the correct one.


I think it's a four-way switch and the "midi" position is the right one? PC1 and 2 are for connecting to software on PC using the "to host" connection, unless I'm missing something? By the way how do I transfer new patches to the CS1X?
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:07 pm

There were about 1500 screws but finally managed to remove the board. Unfortunately can't see anything obviously wrong here - I was hoping some soldering came loose or smth. Uless somebody can roughly suggest which bit I should test with a multimeter I don't thing I'll get too far. :cry:

Edit: checked most components for continuity and get similar readings for similar components...


Image
Last edited by sgsii on Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:08 am

Rasputin wrote:...
If you were in the U.S. I would offer to look at it for the price of shipping it back, maybe someone on here lives closer to you....


You're too kind! Electronic fault finding has always been a huge puzzle for me but also something that I wanted to learn. Not sure that I'll have time to start getting into this now...
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby ʝɵʝɵ » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:06 am

sgsii wrote:
ʝɵʝɵ wrote:I might be stating the obvious, but did you try changing the three-way switch next to the MIDI connectors on the CS1x to different settings? IIRC it had three settings PC1, PC2 and MAC, and one of the first two is the correct one.


I think it's a four-way switch and the "midi" position is the right one? PC1 and 2 are for connecting to software on PC using the "to host" connection, unless I'm missing something? By the way how do I transfer new patches to the CS1X?

Sorry, it's been a while since I have had access to my CS1x so it's entirely possible that this is true (nevertheless it cannot hurt to try them all :mrgreen: ). For transferring patches in SYX or MID format, you can use some tool like SendSX. If they are in the CS1x editor format, try the following: Get VirtualBox or some kind of other virtualization software and install a 32-bit Windows version in it. Windows XP should do fine, so if Microsoft still offers that free "Windows XP mode" virtual machine on their website, you could probably resort to that.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:17 am

ʝɵʝɵ wrote:
sgsii wrote:
ʝɵʝɵ wrote:I might be stating the obvious, but did you try changing the three-way switch next to the MIDI connectors on the CS1x to different settings? IIRC it had three settings PC1, PC2 and MAC, and one of the first two is the correct one.


I think it's a four-way switch and the "midi" position is the right one? PC1 and 2 are for connecting to software on PC using the "to host" connection, unless I'm missing something? By the way how do I transfer new patches to the CS1X?

Sorry, it's been a while since I have had access to my CS1x so it's entirely possible that this is true (nevertheless it cannot hurt to try them all :mrgreen: ). For transferring patches in SYX or MID format, you can use some tool like SendSX. If they are in the CS1x editor format, try the following: Get VirtualBox or some kind of other virtualization software and install a 32-bit Windows version in it. Windows XP should do fine, so if Microsoft still offers that free "Windows XP mode" virtual machine on their website, you could probably resort to that.


Thanks, will give it a try once I fix the midi out fault and hopefully put the thing back together into one peace :mrgreen:
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby Rasputin » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:40 am

sgsii wrote:There were about 1500 screws but finally managed to remove the board. Unfortunately can't see anything obviously wrong here - I was hoping some soldering came loose or smth. Uless somebody can roughly suggest which bit I should test with a multimeter I don't thing I'll get too far. :cry:

Edit: checked most components for continuity and get similar readings for similar components...

Image


Well, this is your first stop on the journey:

http://www.polynominal.com/site/studio/ ... manual.pdf

I'll explain more when I have a bit of time, but as long as pin 15 on the CPU isn't dead then you'll be in good shape. IC2 (in the upper-left of your picture) is going to be a primary suspect.

1) Check for +5VDC on pin 4 of the MIDI Out port.
2) Check for ground on pin 2 of the MIDI Out port. If you get continuity between pin 2 of MIDI Thru and pin 2 of MIDI Out then you should be okay.
3) Pin 3 of IC2 should show connectivity with MIDI Out port pin 4. <--- what the h**l?
3) Pin 2 of IC2 should show continuity with MIDI Out port pin 5.

Those are the preliminaries, and we'll go from there.
Last edited by Rasputin on Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:32 pm

Rasputin wrote:
Those are the preliminaries, and we'll go from there.


Thanks a bunch, Rasputin! I will give it a go ;)
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:51 pm

Rasputin wrote:
I'll explain more when I have a bit of time, but as long as pin 15 on the CPU isn't dead then you'll be in good shape. IC2 (in the upper-left of your picture) is going to be a primary suspect.

1) Check for +5VDC on pin 4 of the MIDI Out port.
2) Check for ground on pin 2 of the MIDI Out port. If you get continuity between pin 2 of MIDI Thru and pin 2 of MIDI Out then you should be okay.
3) Pin 3 of IC2 should show connectivity with MIDI Out port pin 4.

Those are the preliminaries, and we'll go from there.


Wow this is exhausting :D

2) - OK
3) on continuity setting I get a reading 1133

I'll have to re-connect to check the voltages

I also found in the service manual from your link that there is a built in midi test. Just need to wait for the midi cable to be delivered to try that.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby Rasputin » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:19 am

Rasputin wrote:3) Pin 3 of IC2 should show connectivity with MIDI Out port pin 4.


I have NO idea what I was smoking when I typed that. It should have been MIDI Out pin 5 should show continuity with pin 2 of IC2. Keep in mind it goes through a resistor but it shouldn't be an open circuit, anyway.

And the +5VDC will probably actually be like 4.2V or something, but there should be voltage present, at any rate.

Long short short, if it passes those three tests then we replace or reroute IC2. If that doesn't work then you're very likely screwed :)

My totally guesswork hunch is that pin 2 of IC2 is floating, meaning it is internally disconnected inside the chip. If so, I think IC2 has a spare pair of in/out we can steal from. Or just replace IC2 entirely. But we're not there yet--could be a couple other things.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:39 pm

Rasputin wrote:
1) Check for +5VDC on pin 4 of the MIDI Out port. - 5.1V on pin 4 both for out/tru ports
2) Check for ground on pin 2 of the MIDI Out port. If you get continuity between pin 2 of MIDI Thru and pin 2 of MIDI Out then you should be okay. - continuity is present
3) Pin 2 of IC2 should show continuity with MIDI Out port pin 5. - reading is 226 - I guess it indicates there's connectivity

Those are the preliminaries, and we'll go from there.


So basically nothing is broken :mrgreen:
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:54 pm

Have my MIDI to MIDI cable delivered, finally. Now I can hopefully run the built in MIDI test but can't get it to work. I must be pressing "switches" in wrong order or something :D

Edit: stupid wording frankly - couldn't just say hold down the three bloody buttons together and swith it on :lol:

Test mode works! Apparently both MIDI and Midi Switch are OK :shock:

Going to test the through port with my other keyboard...

Image
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:53 pm

Whatever the test result is MIDI Ox is not picking up any signals from the Tru port. I wonder if thebuilt in yamaya MIDI test is rubbish...
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby sgsii » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:04 pm

Well, after all the testing and stuff it turns out that the MIDI out is actually working. With the simple MIDI to MIDI cable I just bought it controls the other keyboard no problem. I think the problem is some sort of a compatability issue of the MIDI interace that I'm using (E-MU Xmidi 1x1 Tab) with CS1X.
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Re: CS1X MIDI in/out not working

Postby Rasputin » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:23 pm

Good sleuthing!

The next thing you can try is to pass the CS1X to your other keyboard and then have the keyboard pass on all MIDI data to the computer. That might be a workaround to get the CS1X to talk to the computer, by using the other keyboard as a translator of sorts.

The idea is to see if it's a physical incompatibility rather than some communication standard glitch / bad driver, etc.
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