Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
Forum rules
READ: Please Read the Rules of Sound Production.
READ: Please Read the Rules of Sound Production.
-
- Supporting Member!
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:36 am
- Gear: PEK, Voyager, JP-8080, Sirius, Radias, Lead 2, X-Station25, KS-Rack, Z1, MPC4000
Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
Do synths pretty much all have unbalanced outputs? I am planning a cable purchase along with a audio interface that supports balanced and want to make sure I get the right thing.
PS: my list of synths is on my avatar.
PS: my list of synths is on my avatar.
-
- Active Member
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:58 pm
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
Most synths are unbalanced. You can use balanced cables with no issues.
- novielo
- Moderator
- Posts: 1221
- Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:37 pm
- Gear: in order of appearence:
sh2000 s612 nord modular mpc1000 kp3 ms-something cp-251 gameboy s6000 and other crappy stuff - Band: one-man band
- Location: by the river, st-jerome, quebec, canada, north america
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
do you have access to one balanced cable to try it out? my sh-2000 will refuse to work with a balanced cable pluged in. all my other newer synth do work tough.
-Save yourself the time and have a conversation with a plastic chair. -RobotHeroes
- Stab Frenzy
- Moderator
- Posts: 9723
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
- Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
- Location: monster island*
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
That's not correct, there are a number of issues with using unbalanced outputs with balanced cables to balanced inputs. You're much better off using unbalanced cables to balanced inputs, and you won't notice and difference in signal/noise ratios at line level.Alex Hamilton wrote:Most synths are unbalanced. You can use balanced cables with no issues.
-
- Newbie
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:48 pm
- Gear: K2500RS + KDFX, K2600R, 2 x DMTi, KSP8, Capybara 320, DSI Mono Evolver Kbd, DeepBase9, Powercore Firewire + Virus, Yamaha TX81z & 03d
- Location: Norwich, UK
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
As Stab Frenzy said, best to test first.
e.g.
Kurzweil K2600R has balanced aux outputs
Kurzweil K2500R has unbalanced aux outputs (but with TRS jacks to provide inserts for each only if a TRS cable is used)
The majority of (ahem) "cheaper" synths tend to have unbalanced 1/4" jacks but some break the norm.
e.g.
Kurzweil K2600R has balanced aux outputs
Kurzweil K2500R has unbalanced aux outputs (but with TRS jacks to provide inserts for each only if a TRS cable is used)
The majority of (ahem) "cheaper" synths tend to have unbalanced 1/4" jacks but some break the norm.
-
- Active Member
- Posts: 338
- Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:58 pm
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
Sorry, you're right, I was thinking the other way round. God knows why, the question was obvious.Stab Frenzy wrote:That's not correct, there are a number of issues with using unbalanced outputs with balanced cables to balanced inputs. You're much better off using unbalanced cables to balanced inputs, and you won't notice and difference in signal/noise ratios at line level.
- Mr Knesh
- Junior Member
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 4:06 am
- Real name: Roland
- Gear: DP/4+ because in order to dive in deep, you have to DP.
- Location: Oregon
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
The only synth that I have ever seen that had balanced outs on it was the Alesis Nano-Piano.
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
The only synths I can think of with balanced outs are the Moog Voyager Rack, Roland Fantom, Access Virus TI Polar, and Kurzweil stuff ..The Jupiter 6 and 8 have XLR balanced outs..Mr Knesh wrote:The only synth that I have ever seen that had balanced outs on it was the Alesis Nano-Piano.
Synthi: DSI Polyevolver, DSI Prophet 08, Moog Source, Moog Voyager, Roland Fantom X8, Generalmusic S2 and SK88, Yamaha RM50, MFB Kult
Future: Macbeth X-Factor
Future: Macbeth X-Factor
-
- Supporting Member!
- Posts: 81
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:36 am
- Gear: PEK, Voyager, JP-8080, Sirius, Radias, Lead 2, X-Station25, KS-Rack, Z1, MPC4000
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
Tks folks! That's pretty much what I thought, that unless I have a high-end workstation, I am very unlikely to have balanced outs.
- OriginalJambo
- Synth Explorer
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:04 am
- Gear: Check my sig
- Location: Scotland, United Kingdom
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
There's generally no real need for synths to have balanced outputs as, unlike microphones, you are unlikely to be using great lengths of cable. I third the notion that unbalanced cables would be best, unless of course you are running a lot of cable in which case a DI box might be the ideal solution.
- clusterchord
- Active Member
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:35 pm
- Real name: Tomislav
- Band: Nimbus Dei
- Location: Zagreb, Croatia
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
balanced outputs are rare on synth. of ones i use, i found em on Jupiter8, MKS80 and Emu EOS samplers.
most of the time its not necesarry, but i sometimes use it if its there. for example, JP8 sounds slightly better going balanced direct into balanced line input on fireface, then using its unbalanced jack output. so i record direct balanced, and use the unbal out to send it to a BBD delay etc.
as for choice of audio interface, most that have balanced inputs are combo and auto-switching... ie.e they support unbalanced input as well, tho its 6dB quieter, so these cards usually offer some i/o level control panel. choice of +4 or -10 operation etc.
one situation that might pose a problem is if u plan to use an some older outboard that hasn't auto switching input but strictly balanced i/o, you cannot input an unbal. synth there straight. it needs some conversion first - usually u would go to a preamps hi-z input. it adapts impedance, fixes level and balances the signal.
for example lexicon300 and panasonic dat was like that.
most of the time its not necesarry, but i sometimes use it if its there. for example, JP8 sounds slightly better going balanced direct into balanced line input on fireface, then using its unbalanced jack output. so i record direct balanced, and use the unbal out to send it to a BBD delay etc.
as for choice of audio interface, most that have balanced inputs are combo and auto-switching... ie.e they support unbalanced input as well, tho its 6dB quieter, so these cards usually offer some i/o level control panel. choice of +4 or -10 operation etc.
one situation that might pose a problem is if u plan to use an some older outboard that hasn't auto switching input but strictly balanced i/o, you cannot input an unbal. synth there straight. it needs some conversion first - usually u would go to a preamps hi-z input. it adapts impedance, fixes level and balances the signal.
for example lexicon300 and panasonic dat was like that.
- iProg
- Expert Member
- Posts: 1019
- Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:28 pm
- Real name: Carl
- Gear: Prophet-5, Korg PolySix, Roland D-50, JV-1080
- Band: ArtWithHeart
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
Balanced/Unbalanced? What is the difference? *completely clueless* :-k
- Stab Frenzy
- Moderator
- Posts: 9723
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
- Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
- Location: monster island*
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
http://tinyurl.com/d6n7a6iProg wrote:Balanced/Unbalanced? What is the difference? *completely clueless* :-k
- Untouchable_888
- Junior Member
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:55 am
- Real name: Nightshade
- Gear: Cheetah ms6
Moog Mother-32
Roland JP-08
Novation Circuit
Korg Volca Sample
bass guitar - Band: Heart of Thorns
- Location: Rutland, VT
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
So using 1/4" TRS to XLR cables on my Minibrute and Cheetah ms6 is a bad idea? I have them going into the front of my Scarlet 18i8 via the afore mentioned cables.Stab Frenzy wrote:That's not correct, there are a number of issues with using unbalanced outputs with balanced cables to balanced inputs. You're much better off using unbalanced cables to balanced inputs, and you won't notice and difference in signal/noise ratios at line level.Alex Hamilton wrote:Most synths are unbalanced. You can use balanced cables with no issues.
I came across this thread because I was trying to figure out if the Output jack on the JP-08 is balanced or unbalanced. I currently and using an 1/8" TS cable with a 1/8 to 1/4 inch adapter on the end. (Same with my Volca Keys except the cable itself is an 1/8 to 1/4 inch TS/mono cable.) I can run a TS cable from all four of my synths if that's what I should be doing.
I just thought that the XLR would give me better quality..
A.D.I.D.A.S.
[All Day I Dream About Synths]
~NOVATION IMPULSE 49 -> Cheetah ms6, Roland JP-08, Arturia Minibrute, Kong Volca Keys, bass guitar, <-/-> M-Audio MIDIman 2x4 -> Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 etc.
[All Day I Dream About Synths]
~NOVATION IMPULSE 49 -> Cheetah ms6, Roland JP-08, Arturia Minibrute, Kong Volca Keys, bass guitar, <-/-> M-Audio MIDIman 2x4 -> Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 etc.
- Stab Frenzy
- Moderator
- Posts: 9723
- Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm
- Gear: Eurorack, RYTM, Ultranova, many FX
- Location: monster island*
- Contact:
Re: Synth outputs... balanced or unbalanced?
No a TRS -> XLR connection will give you worse quality for the following reasons:
- The XLR inputs are low impedance mic inputs. The synth's outputs expect a high impedance line input and can have difficulties supplying enough current to a low impedance input, particularly cheap, low power units like the JP-08 and Volca.
- The ring -> cold connection will be floating which means it'll be able to pick up extra noise rather than performing its job of reducing noise.
What you need are unbalanced leads going into the line inputs of your interface.
- The XLR inputs are low impedance mic inputs. The synth's outputs expect a high impedance line input and can have difficulties supplying enough current to a low impedance input, particularly cheap, low power units like the JP-08 and Volca.
- The ring -> cold connection will be floating which means it'll be able to pick up extra noise rather than performing its job of reducing noise.
What you need are unbalanced leads going into the line inputs of your interface.