just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
astroidmist
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 216
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:55 am

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by astroidmist » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:50 am

I tend to agree with the original poster. A lot of YouTube demo videos do suck, and it seems like more of them suck to me than ones that don't suck. Even some organized reviews or offical product demos or NAMM demos suck. But it is a joy to find the ones that don't suck. They make YouTube worth it.

Just as an example, I remember watching about 10-15 YouTube demos of Toxic Biohazard and NONE of them actually demoed any FM Synthesis capabilities of it, even though it's an FM Synth!!?!? Most of them were made by young kids just showing how to make a supersaw with one saw oscillator and that's it.

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by Solderman » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:01 pm

I still stand by my page 1 comments. If it encourages gearlust and the item is no longer being made, it's part of the problem of exponentially increasing demand and is a pretentious display, entertaining or not. If you already own the item and need a demo of what it's capable of however, then a good demo video actually has a positive use.

The odds of the former significantly outweigh the good intentions of the latter, making them mostly a menace to vintage synths, as they continually change hands shipped all over the globe, rapidly decaying despite their price increasing, usually with little or no hope of being brought back to life once the damage is done, or end up collecting dust on the shelf of a collector, never to be played with any inspired exuberance or heard in good recorded music ever again.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
bouzoukijoe1
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by bouzoukijoe1 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:31 pm

frankly, I don't understand the idea of sitting around and ranting about how much the web sucks rather than just acting on improving it. let's face it, the world has been 90% suck since the birth of man -- mediocre products, faulty products, cheap construction, mediocre talent, etc. and nobody should expect that to change unless you just want to be depressed til you die. what you CAN DO is help surface the best that is out there and encourage more of it.

and that's what the real problem is -- the fact that you encounter more c**p videos than gold. if anything it's the fault of the YouTube interface that you see more c**p than you should (just like Vimeo). remember, there is a finite amount of gold in the world. that's why gold is gold.

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2769
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Subliminal Sea
Location: Exton/ westchester
Contact:

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:52 pm

Na, Solderman has a point. Videos unnecessarily feed gearlust. Although 2 things come to mind: I got the idea to use samplers instead of daws from a technique I saw on a video (that I can no longer find), and a video helped me figure out my 303 when I was clueless. Ironically, no one really cares about keyboard samplers anymore, and the 303 is already hyped to death!
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by Solderman » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:10 pm

bouzoukijoe1 wrote:frankly, I don't understand the idea of sitting around and ranting about how much the web sucks rather than just acting on improving it.
I could be wrong on this(I often am), but it seems the exposure is sufficiently ubiquitous enough now that it's too late, unless people start taking down shitty videos in droves, because the double-digit IQ commenters finally made them crack or something.

It's not quite like popular music, where the cream rises to the top and the time-wasting majority is quickly forgotten. We can do our part here on the forum to post good videos, certainly, but then how many forumites here will tell you that the video's sound quality leaves most of the experience behind and you end up with what you should have done: Played a real one yourself and left the gearlust video surfing the h**l alone.

btw, I have two videos, both about mods to specific gear. So I've done my part at being pretentious too. Only good thing that came out of it was helping someone across the Atlantic with his own mods after he watched one of them.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
bouzoukijoe1
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by bouzoukijoe1 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Solderman wrote:
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:frankly, I don't understand the idea of sitting around and ranting about how much the web sucks rather than just acting on improving it.
I could be wrong on this(I often am), but it seems the exposure is sufficiently ubiquitous enough now that it's too late, unless people start taking down shitty videos in droves, because the double-digit IQ commenters finally made them crack or something.

It's not quite like popular music, where the cream rises to the top and the time-wasting majority is quickly forgotten. We can do our part here on the forum to post good videos, certainly, but then how many forumites here will tell you that the video's sound quality leaves most of the experience behind and you end up with what you should have done: Played a real one yourself or left the gearlust video surfing the h**l alone.
good points, but I politely disagree. it's not too late. it's not just up to us, but we have to do our share to help communicate which are the "good" videos and which aren't. if you give more credit to good videos, that may help convince other talented videomakers that doing things properly is appreciated and that will encourage them to contribute. if more of them find the time to make videos, we'll obviously have more good ones.

one of the big reasons people feel frustrated is because they go browsing around on YouTube and all they stumble across are these annoying, bad videos. I think a lot can be done in improving the YouTube interface so you see more of the best ones and the crappy ones get pushed back. that's currently not the case obviously because there are some decent ones that you don't get to see because not many people have clicked on them or commented on them yet. the recommendation engines on YouTube are based on a certain algorithm and it's always the most popular or commented that appear -- not so much about quality as much as activity. it's obviously not up to us to fix that, but we can only do so much.

and I for one do not believe in taking down bad videos. it's undemocratic. but one thing websites can improve are better interfaces so that the best most high quality content is always easy to get to. if that is achieved, it doesn't matter how much c**p people post, because the gold will be only one click away if the website is done right. and we'll all feel less frustrated.

User avatar
Solderman
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 1799
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:43 pm

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by Solderman » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:38 pm

bouzoukijoe1 wrote:good points, but I politely disagree.
I'm most likely wrong, as I said. I stopped watching videos of synths about the time I actually got to play some.
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:if more of them find the time to make videos, we'll obviously have more good ones.
I could go into a biased rant about talented people actually using their gear to make music, with no focus on specific instruments, but rather live performances in their studio and such. But who am I to say how people spend their time and encourage others to spend theirs' watching it?
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:one of the big reasons people feel frustrated is because they go browsing around on YouTube and all they stumble across are these annoying, bad videos.
And they get gearlust anyway. How do we prevent that?
bouzoukijoe1 wrote:I for one do not believe in taking down bad videos. it's undemocratic.
Agreed. Choice is good, at least in theory. And every video deserves a chance to prove its worthiness. Beyond that, I say f**k 'em if they are deemed to be a waste of time by a majority.
I am no longer in pursuit of vintage synths. The generally absurd inflation from demand versus practical use and maintenance costs is no longer viable. The internet has suffocated and vanquished yet another wonderful hobby. Too bad.
--Solderman no more.

User avatar
Z
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3539
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 3:08 am
Gear: Bubble wrap, Styrofoam, boxes, packing tape
Location: Docking Bay 94 (Dallas, TX)
Contact:

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by Z » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:24 pm

So what do you want and not want to see or hear in a demo?

There's been a lot of complaining here, but no real constructive criticism. Someone on page 1 point out that he did not like 10 minutes of sensless knobbing on a sequence - who does? People have posted examples of particular channels/users/whatever that they do or do not like.

I'll tell you what I don't like:
Poor lighting and/or focus
Shakey camera - come on, tripods are CHEAP!
Audio from the camera's built-in mic
And lately, iPhone videos shot in portait. Makes me feel like I'm looking through a cracked open door.

I've amassed quite a collection of synths over the past few years, but it's become counter-productive. I've been planning a gear purge, but want to make some videos before selling them off. I think I've made a few good demos, many mediocre and some stinkers. Feel free to leave positive comments or constructive critisicm on my videos: www.youtube.com/zibbybone

User avatar
DLovas
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:48 pm
Real name: David
Gear: Roland JP-8000
Roland JV-1080
Roland D-550
Roland S-760 (3x)
Waldorf Pulse+
u-he Zebra2
Location: Connecticut

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by DLovas » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:52 am

Z wrote:So what do you want and not want to see or hear in a demo?
Maybe we shoud just make a thread title that - make it a sticky or sumthin :mrgreen:

For me what i dislike:

Bad Sound Quality...

Bad Video Quality (although this is not very important)

Slideshow Demos... (when theres just a picture infront of a sound... Sure its a demo, but you don't feel like someones showcasing the gear TO you) not that big a deal tho

Demos that involve nothing that is relevant to actually music. (In some cases filtering a noise osc can be musical as we all know, yet using a noise osc through a sequencer for 5 minutes is not music - not in my opinion)

After that it comes down to whether or not i like the patches being shown - that is ALL opinion however so i guess my list is done.

What i like:

Nicely filmed Demos (that vid someone posted here of the Kebu guy - THAT was great)

Nice Audio / Video Quality - its not that hard for someone to record line in... the video quality i have more slack for - but even cell phones these days have good quality, so once again - not that difficult to obtain.

Originality. Sure i can't persecute someone for playing a patch all my other prerequisites checked off the list - however, i tend to get ticked off if i hear someone playing castles in the sky from lan van dahl on a jp8000 or something (i've run into a few examples of such)

I like when people just simply - PLAY. Which is precisely what Katsunori Ujiie does.

Basically Katsunori's stuff (musictrackjp) is my template for a good video. His are top notch - slightly lesser quality is fine, but his are top notch.

talking is fine - as long as its not during the playing of the gear
My Reasoning for such standards:

Yes. I know that youtube does not owe me anything... however i never stated this. I only wished to exhibit my frustration at the frequent exposure to c**p that youtube brings me. It deprives me of information that i find vital to the method in which i decide upon purchases - my purchases being hard earned money that does not come in frequently. I can read all i want - but in the end its all conjecture. I need to HEAR the unit (doing something somewhat musical) in order for me to make an educated verdict. For many vintage synths - or even many post year 2000 synths (Andromeda, Neuron, etc.) it is hard to find in store units that can be tested, thus making the internet, my only source for hearing the unit in question.

Perhaps some of you are correct that instead of attacking those who upload - i should be attacking youtube itself for its interface (which i too see as inadequate). The fizmo video I uploaded, if i search fizmo - does not come up... there are only 7 pages of results... many of which yield duplicate links to videos on the first page of results. So for my video to not show up once... it disturbs me. Perhaps there are more good videos out there than we know, that simply are not revealed in any search results....
Last edited by DLovas on Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
aredj
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 497
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:34 am
Gear: A little bit of E-muAccessJomoxKorg -
Spectralis2!
Location: Toronto ON

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by aredj » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:50 am

Ooooh geez. You have to sift through the trillions of bytes of shitty data to find something good. Welcome to the internet. Remember how it used to be? This thread makes me feel old at 35!!?

Reality check.


User avatar
bouzoukijoe1
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by bouzoukijoe1 » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:18 am

Z wrote: I've amassed quite a collection of synths over the past few years, but it's become counter-productive. I've been planning a gear purge, but want to make some videos before selling them off. I think I've made a few good demos, many mediocre and some stinkers. Feel free to leave positive comments or constructive critisicm on my videos: http://www.youtube.com/zibbybone
now THAT is what I call a demo. excellent!! very thoughtful to move back and forth from dry to wet signal without interruption. nice touch. I think it's also important that demo'd tunes or beats be relatively pleasing to listen to. it's not realistic to demo stuff that you would never actually use in real life, so your demo really shines in this respect. the examples are realistically good. my only criticism is that not all the actions are shown on camera, but that's obviously a pain in the a*s to do and might require a second camera or multiple takes to change camera angle, so I think it's fine as is. great job!

User avatar
Z
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3539
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 3:08 am
Gear: Bubble wrap, Styrofoam, boxes, packing tape
Location: Docking Bay 94 (Dallas, TX)
Contact:

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by Z » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:02 am

Thanks. I'm assuming you're referring to the SVC-350 video. I actually took my time and some-what scripted that one. I still did not know how to edit on the computer (I edited on tape in the 90s), so I would just start and stop the video capture on the computer. Most of my other videos are static shots, but I think I've come up with a dual camera system (Zoom Q3HD for wide shots and audio input and Canon Rebel T3i for close-ups and B-Roll) that should work well for future videos.

My 2008 vids used a JVC HD7, but the auto-gain feature would add too much noise during softer passages. In 2009-2010, I mostly used my trusty Sony VX-2000 that I used to shoot events with in the early 2000's since it's audio input was selectable between mic and line and I used the firewire to record directly to the computer.

Aside from production quality, what does everyone want to see or hear in a synth demo as far as content? Talking or no talking? Like most people, I don't like the way my voice sounds (southern draw can get bad sometimes), so I prefer to just have the gear do the talking. I don't really like hearing non-scripted narration since most people (including me), tend to "um" and "ah" a lot.

Any production techniques y'all want to share?

greggybud
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:52 am
Gear: DSI Polyevolver, Mopho
Ensoniq VFX-SD-2, ESQ-R
Oberheim OB-8, OB-12, M-1000
Moog Voyager
Nord 2
Yamaha TX-802
Roland D-550
Emu Morpheus, Vintage Keys
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by greggybud » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:04 am

DLovas wrote:I understand that youtube doesnt owe me anything - but is it unreasonable to become frustrated, when looking for some quality examples of a product that you're on the market for, and youtube only offers, and i think we can all agree on what "s**t" demos are.... take that one of the modular synth i just posted... anyway. Maybe i harshly worded the title, but yea. thanks for the kind words on my vid.

I would not hav bought the fiz if i didnt find this nice video of a patch on it.

Good thought since youtube is free. So you don't feel it's an entitlement...good.

My suggestion to cure your frustrations is for you to produce and upload high quality videos on obscure and discontinued synthesizers. Until that time, no, I don't think anyone should be frustrated. You are using a free service and becoming frustrated because it's not satisfying your desires. I suppose you could vote for the Youtube police to delete the "s***" demos, however you want to describe those, but then you might end up with a Youtube that has zero demos of the Fizmo...and then complain here because they don't exist!

User avatar
DLovas
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 495
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:48 pm
Real name: David
Gear: Roland JP-8000
Roland JV-1080
Roland D-550
Roland S-760 (3x)
Waldorf Pulse+
u-he Zebra2
Location: Connecticut

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by DLovas » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:16 am

greggybud wrote:
DLovas wrote:I understand that youtube doesnt owe me anything - but is it unreasonable to become frustrated, when looking for some quality examples of a product that you're on the market for, and youtube only offers, and i think we can all agree on what "s**t" demos are.... take that one of the modular synth i just posted... anyway. Maybe i harshly worded the title, but yea. thanks for the kind words on my vid.

I would not hav bought the fiz if i didnt find this nice video of a patch on it.

Good thought since youtube is free. So you don't feel it's an entitlement...good.

My suggestion to cure your frustrations is for you to produce and upload high quality videos on obscure and discontinued synthesizers. Until that time, no, I don't think anyone should be frustrated. You are using a free service and becoming frustrated because it's not satisfying your desires. I suppose you could vote for the Youtube police to delete the "s***" demos, however you want to describe those, but then you might end up with a Youtube that has zero demos of the Fizmo...and then complain here because they don't exist!
thank you once again - restating what everyone else has already said and i have addressed is very helpful. I have already made one video - not the best video, most definitely not the worst. I will also make more (better videos) when i have the time... i have already stated i do not think youtube owes me anything? why then do you continue to treat me as if i stated this?

User avatar
Automatic Gainsay
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 3962
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:22 am
Real name: Marc Doty
Gear: Minimoog, 2600, CS-15, CS-50, MiniBrute, MicroBrute, S2, Korg MS-20 Mini, 3 Volcas, Pro 2, Leipzig, Pianet T, Wurli 7300, Wurli 145-A, ASR-10, e6400.
Band: Godfrey's Cordial
Location: Tacoma
Contact:

Re: just me? or do youtube demos all suck

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:52 am

For clarity:

Demo: Someone who shows functionality.

Performance: Someone who plays something.
‎"I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -Charles Babbage
"Unity and Mediocrity are forever in bed together." -Zane W.
http://www.youtube.com/automaticgainsay

Post Reply