Moog Sub 37

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Re: Finaly a new poliphonic Moog or not?!

Post by pflosi » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:46 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
pflosi wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Monophonic/Monophony: This synthesizer, triggered from a keyboard...
Bah! :lol:
I'm an old man stuck in the past. I intentionally put my descriptions in terms of 1970s analog synthesizers. :D
You mean like a VCS3 or Buchla 200? :mrgreen:

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Re: Finaly a new poliphonic Moog or not?!

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:00 am

pflosi wrote:You mean like a VCS3 or Buchla 200? :mrgreen:
You're gonna get it, Mr. :D
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Black Tomorrow » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:22 am

I've got my eye on some other synths at the moment, but this synth may change my priorities.

AG, will you be doing a video series for this?
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by nathanscribe » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:18 pm

Much better modulation than the Phattys, certainly. Lack of modulation power is the main gripe I have about the LP.

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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:19 pm

Black Tomorrow wrote:AG, will you be doing a video series for this?
After nearly every reviewer on the internet had a Sub Phatty, I had to ask them to lend me one (that may sound petulant... but due to my job, I actually worked frequently with these people and know them personally). They did, but apparently... for reasons I can't fathom... the "management" thought my Sub Phatty demo was in some way denigrating to the instrument during the course of my demos. When I realized that the Sub Phatty's "under the hood" settings were resetting themselves against my will, I stopped releasing the demos (and very kindly did not make a video about that particular quirk). It was most likely political bullshit... and I'm not very keen on that sort of thing.

So, probably not.
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by griffin avid » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:27 am

you can't forgive and well, never forget for the greater good of the brand and legacy?
Plus, I'd like to do Q&A about it when it drops....
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Black Tomorrow » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:40 am

Ah, that explains a lot. I enjoyed the Sub Phatty videos released so far, but I was wainting for the "under the hood" demo. Now I know why.

So, no further appearences from The Incredible Shrinking Marc ;)
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Kidney05 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:59 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Black Tomorrow wrote:AG, will you be doing a video series for this?
After nearly every reviewer on the internet had a Sub Phatty, I had to ask them to lend me one (that may sound petulant... but due to my job, I actually worked frequently with these people and know them personally). They did, but apparently... for reasons I can't fathom... the "management" thought my Sub Phatty demo was in some way denigrating to the instrument during the course of my demos. When I realized that the Sub Phatty's "under the hood" settings were resetting themselves against my will, I stopped releasing the demos (and very kindly did not make a video about that particular quirk). It was most likely political bullshit... and I'm not very keen on that sort of thing.

So, probably not.
That's very surprising… granted, I didn't watch all your videos for the Sub, but you never seem critical of any instruments you demo otherwise.

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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Kenneth » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:04 pm

Kidney05 wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Black Tomorrow wrote:AG, will you be doing a video series for this?
After nearly every reviewer on the internet had a Sub Phatty, I had to ask them to lend me one (that may sound petulant... but due to my job, I actually worked frequently with these people and know them personally). They did, but apparently... for reasons I can't fathom... the "management" thought my Sub Phatty demo was in some way denigrating to the instrument during the course of my demos. When I realized that the Sub Phatty's "under the hood" settings were resetting themselves against my will, I stopped releasing the demos (and very kindly did not make a video about that particular quirk). It was most likely political bullshit... and I'm not very keen on that sort of thing.

So, probably not.
That's very surprising… granted, I didn't watch all your videos for the Sub, but you never seem critical of any instruments you demo otherwise.
He wasn't critical in any way of the Sub Phatty, but those demos were released during the same period that he released his MS-20 mini videos, in which he was very noticeably more excited than in the videos for the Sub. Moog probably just didn't like that he was having more fun with a Korg instrument than with their own.
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Distorted_Frequency » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:33 pm

I'm so excited. I was very close to buying a Sub Phatty and rehousing it in a larger enclosure with more keys! I'm glad life got in the way of that project. I will be purchasing this bad boy for sure!

AG too bad on the political shenanigans. I always enjoy your thorough synth reviews.

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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:44 pm

Kenneth wrote:That's very surprising… granted, I didn't watch all your videos for the Sub, but you never seem critical of any instruments you demo otherwise.
He wasn't critical in any way of the Sub Phatty, but those demos were released during the same period that he released his MS-20 mini videos, in which he was very noticeably more excited than in the videos for the Sub. Moog probably just didn't like that he was having more fun with a Korg instrument than with their own.
Yikes, Kenneth... that is very insightful. Yes, I think that may have had something to do with it. :/

Weirdly, despite the contention... Moog still has links of my videos of the Sub Phatty present on their site.

But yes, my enthusiasm about the Sub Phatty was real. I am enthusiastic about the products I demo because I only demo products that I'm excited about! That's why I never do reviews. I think the candor I would employ about products I wasn't enthusiastic about would be a liability. :D

Overall, though... if Moog looked past their own politics and saw merit in me doing a demo, I might consider it. I doubt that, due to a variety of other politics involved. Irrespective of those, they're going to have to put up with me in their booth at NAMM having a personal demonstration of it. Heh heh heh.

Weirdly, despite the contention... Moog still has links of my videos of the Sub Phatty present on their site.
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by Automatic Gainsay » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:48 pm

Black Tomorrow wrote:Ah, that explains a lot. I enjoyed the Sub Phatty videos released so far, but I was wainting for the "under the hood" demo. Now I know why.

So, no further appearences from The Incredible Shrinking Marc ;)
Yep. I have a boatload of videos I didn't release which demonstrate things like the vile "under the hood" stuff, and demonstrations of potential sounds.

Ha ha... I never thought about how it would look like I was shrinking... I love that intro, but that aspect is pretty comical.
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Re: Finaly a new poliphonic Moog or not?!

Post by CZ Rider » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:26 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:"Paraphonic" is a term that has to do with articulation... not a term that has to do with how many notes a synth can generate. A "paraphonic" synthesizer is one where all of the notes generated... from 1 to 1,000,000... go through a single filter and VCA combination. That's it. That is what "paraphonic" means. It's just more noticeable when you're trying to articulate polyphonic passages.
I think you need to do more research on the term "Paraphonic" and where it originated.
Paraphonic is a Roland created name they put on models back in 1977/78. Just like the made up name "Compuphonic", Roland put the "Paraphonic" label on synthesizers that were able to produce what we would call today "Multi-layered". Two such models were the GS/GR-500 Paraphonic Guitar Synthesizer and the RS-505 Paraphonic keyboard. The prefix "para" in english means along side or side by side, like paramedic or paralegal. Roland seemed to have the same idea or intent with using the term describing synthesizers that were capable of producing more than one tone with each key press or string pluck.
Roland describes the GR/GS-500 Paraphonic Guitar Synthesizer as:
"A paraphonic system comprising five sections: guitar, polyensemble, bass, solo melody and external synthesizer. They can be played simultaneously thereby producing sounds in unique modes."
The Roland Paraphonic 505 is similar in that it is capable of playing seperate layered tones simultaneously, string section, synthesizer section and bass. It could even play splits or different tones side by side.
This is where I see the confusion. Many of those similar type stringers could be lumped into the Paraphonic definition as many of these machines could indeed play layered tones. The Moog Opus 3 has three sections, organ, strings and brass that could also be played simultaneously. And likewise the ARP Omni I/II had similar paraphonic capabilities. This all happened in those late 70's when a layered synth/organ was all the rage.
Enter the 80's and polyphonic and MIDI took over. With MIDI came the first true "Multi-timbral" synths. Those paraphonic mulit-layered dinosaurs were long forgotten along with many great monophonic synthesizers.
By the late 90's these vintage machines were becoming popular again, with many rediscovering them. Enter in the internet of the late 90's and an SOS article claiming that "Paraphonic" now means only having one filter or one VCA, and that is how misinformation is spread. In the late 70's when these were made it did not refer to that at all. And it was a Roland term. But language is an ever changing/morphing thing. But I think the original meaning holds up better than one given where a single filter, VCA, or EG makes a synth paraphonic. By that definition my Korg PS-3100 would be paraphonic because the 12 oscillators, 48 VCF/VCA's bottle neck through a single voltage controlled resonator filter with a single VCA and single envelope. In the 70's, "Paraphonic" was Roland's way of saying mulit-layered sound. Look it up!

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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by commodorejohn » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:40 am

If that is the case, Roland was inviting confusion, as the prefix "para-" is also used to mean "resembling something but not actually being that thing" (as in "paramilitary,") which is just as applicable to paraphonic synths as the meaning they intended.
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Re: Moog Sub 37, finaly a new poliphonic Moog?

Post by CZ Rider » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:56 am

Here is a Youtube vid where Paraphonic is described as a Roland shortened version of "parallel phonic". That makes sense too for something playing multi layered sound sources.

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