So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

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So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by AlexL » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:50 am

So, given a few threads that I've seen on here recently, I have to ask - why all the hate for Jordan Rudess?

I'm more of a guitar player than a keyboardist, although I currently split my duties on each instrument equally in my current band. But I've been playing guitar for almost 30 years, and only played keys for about 5 (and only seriously for about 2). As a result, I know little of 'synth culture'.

I am a Dream Theater fan. I've seen them several times. While I prefer Kevin Moore and Derek Sherinian when it comes to DT's keyboardists, Jordan is certainly a master of technique. I have to assume that few can match his abilities.

So - why is he frowned upon in the community? Is it because of his Zen Riffer? I could probably accept that as an answer. As a guitarist, I am bothered by keyboardists who act like they wish they were guitarists. And that's probably the dumbest name for an instrument ever.

Is he the equivalent of the much maligned 'shredder' guitarists. All flash and no feel?

Seriously. Why is he lumped in with Yanni, the unequalled master of flowing hair and pirate shirts?

Dying to get some serious answers.

- E.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by commodorejohn » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:56 am

I'm gonna guess it has something to do with the bias against proggy shredders/noodlers around here, myself.

Never got much into Dream Theater (or prog-metal at all, for that matter,) but I totally dug The Road Home. Dude has excellent taste in music.
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by AlexL » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:02 am

Hey, Duluth MN! Cool! I'm in Rogers MN (NW suburb of Mpls).

I appreciate your answer - but it raises another one: why are prog keyboardists not appreciated?

This is an interesting look into the culture for me.

- E.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by commodorejohn » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:20 am

They are, if you're into progressive rock (I'd actually hazard a guess that it's the best genre for a keyboardist to work in if they want recognition.) It's just that it seems like a lot of people not in the set of "prog-rock fans" disdain them.
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by madtheory » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:34 am

AlexL wrote:Why is he lumped in with Yanni, the unequalled master of flowing hair and pirate shirts?
:lol: it's his beard and baldness!
Last edited by madtheory on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Hybrid88 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:34 am

Surely it's just a super unpopular genre at the moment?

Shredders in general are annoying, plus his serial product flogging is also quite tiresome.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by mpa1104 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:07 am

You'll find that the spirit of Punk (and by that I refer to the general gesticulating of two fingers at the "established" or "traditional" ways of doing things) is still alive and well when it comes to who's appreciated as a player. There are still those who feel that having an all-round awareness of technique and theory is the appropriate mark of being a good player. On the opposite end are those who appear to harbour a severe mistrust and hatred of traditional keyboard learning, and will favour the more raw, self-taught approach as being the mark of a good player.
Then there are those who can take either side with equanimity and are happy with "as long as it makes a good sound, don't care if it's technically well played or not"
There are also the vehement opponents of Prog Rock's oft-cited tendency for "over indulgence." Personally, I feel that insult is a little unfair, although I will admit that there are maybe some Prog tracks that could have done with a little trimming.
As a classically trained musician myself, I personally admire many of the similarly taught (read also far better taught!) players who went into rock and brought their techniques in to enliven and expand the genre beyond a three chord, three minute barnstormer.
But as a composer interested in everything from the Medieval to the present day, I'm also happy with the avant-garde, and the sonic experimentalists (eg, Eno, et al) whose sole intention is to create an interesting sound by any means, irrespective of training.
That's my take on it all anyway, fwiw. And all it really comes down to in the end is one's meat is another's poison.

Rudess? I'm not bothered by him. I think he's technically a great player, and does a lot of clever things. His overall style is not quite my cup of tea, but he's nowhere near the waste of space that Yanni is. One of the reasons Yanni pisses me off is because he's like the Richard Clayderman or Andre Rieu of synths - it's clear that he has a good technique, could be doing cool things with it, but chooses not to.
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Stab Frenzy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:00 am

I always thought people didn't like him cause every time some new product comes out he's there spruiking it, much like BT did about 10 years ago. He's a serial shill.

It's funny how many different reasons are coming out that people don't like him.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by corndogssg » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:43 am

i wached his tutorial's on the kurzweil k2600 and i thought he had a wig on, as i have only ever seen him bald, but with his butt rock hair he had back when that keyboard came out is enough to make you cry laughing. nothing against the guy, may come off like a know it all, and yeah he has his hands on demoing everything and anything at namms and other music shows.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Bitexion » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:55 am

People dislike the virtuosos in the same way that guitarist dislike "wankers" like Yngwie Malmsteen, who can spend 2 hours playing scales up and down without stopping.

It's a level of playing that is "way above me, man" so they react by disliking it, saying stuff like "oh that guy, he's the biggest guitar masturbator in the world", "his solos suck cos I can't replicate them, he's playing scales like he's j**k his d**k".

Same thing goes for the prog keyboardists (and prog musicians in general). They're too technically achieved to easily mimic, so you automatically get some kind of anger towards them. "Oh Dream Theater, they're that math metal band who only plays in 5/24th beats right? f**k wankers real music is played with 3 chords and 4/4, their vocalist can hit notes in a 5 octave range, what a j**k HE is" etc

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by mpa1104 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:15 pm

Stab Frenzy wrote:I always thought people didn't like him cause every time some new product comes out he's there spruiking it, much like BT did about 10 years ago. He's a serial shill.
Fair point, I guess that doesn't really help as its shows an inconsistency. People might think he's too easily bought. :o :o (surely not!)
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Blue Monster 65 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:19 pm

Don't know the guy nor his music, but find it funny that he's everywhere promoting everything. My comment in the Death Match was a joke.

I wouldn't know him (or most of the others in that list) if he walked up to me on the street and smacked me in the face.
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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Bitexion » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:28 pm

[youtube][/youtube]

Here's some live footage. I believe his heart beats at 3/7ths

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by Purpureus » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:39 pm

I totally respect JR for putting so much work into his playing and achieving such a skill. I even enjoy some of his music. You will not find any hate from me.

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Re: So... Why no love for Jordan Rudess?

Post by joeboy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 1:55 pm

I have nothing against prog. King Crimson is one of my favorite bands (though they don't use synths hmmm). Nothing wrong with being complex either. It's just that DT's music in particular is ridiculous and annoying.

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