ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

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Hyde
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ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:13 pm

I just posted this on another of my threads but I think it might be a good source on its own

Has anyone had a Jaz drive that worked with an EPS16+ ?

I have an early drive, I did the SCSI mod that directs power to the termination & still had no luck getting to complete the formatting process. It would communicate back & forth but would not format, in the end. "Operation Error" & check on the other end would not save anything to disk.
The real question I have is that there is not a MFG date on the outside of the drive. It's the early case version. I'm told that they changed the case after the 1/97 date, which is when the drives became incompatible with the ASR/EPS. Even at that, mine won't format. It's works flawlessly with my Akai.
Even further, I picked up a Zip drive & it formats/works w/o issue.

if you can add to this or have questions, please post your thoughts here. Thanks, Hyde
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Jabberwalky » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:46 pm

I haven't ever gotten them to work. Waste of time. I just got the Scsi2sd and ditched all the junk storage mediums.

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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:40 pm

Jabberwalky wrote:I haven't ever gotten them to work. Waste of time. I just got the Scsi2sd and ditched all the junk storage mediums.
I'll eventually do that, that's the plan. Trying to get my setup together right now, then I'll focus on the finer things ;). Good news is that I basically have more than enough peices, now & storage options that seem viable, for the time being.
I keep collecting things I don't need because people are basically giving them away. Nice being handy & living near the big city again :D
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by blueknob » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:07 am

As far as I know the EPS16+ doesn't work with Jaz drives, as you know it does with ZIPs which seem to be a really good match, more so as the drive shuts down after 10mins of inactivity (silence). Files on the EPS16+ are not that large and the 100MB capacity makes it easier to keep a library in sections. There are also a number of other SCSI storage devices the EPS16+ doesn't work with when other samplers they do. I use EDM to keep a directory listing so I can see what I've got on the ZIP disk and also add it to a searchable database list.

Did you get to fix your EPS16+?

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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by cornutt » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:23 pm

The reliability of those Jaz drives was very poor. I've seen them used in number of applications and they all failed within a year or two. I'd be a bit surprised to come across one that still works.
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:44 pm

blueknob wrote:As far as I know the EPS16+ doesn't work with Jaz drives, as you know it does with ZIPs which seem to be a really good match, more so as the drive shuts down after 10mins of inactivity (silence). Files on the EPS16+ are not that large and the 100MB capacity makes it easier to keep a library in sections. There are also a number of other SCSI storage devices the EPS16+ doesn't work with when other samplers they do. I use EDM to keep a directory listing so I can see what I've got on the ZIP disk and also add it to a searchable database list.

Did you get to fix your EPS16+?
Funny, I haven't fixed the keyboard. I picked up a maxed out scsi EPS16+ rack mount for an awesome price, locally. I'm waiting for one of the parts people to list a mainboard for the keyboard. Then I'll have two units maxed out w/ scsi, working....hopefully. If I get time again, I'll pull the lid on the rack & try to compare, to see if i can trace down the root of the problem.
Yes, Zip seems to be working great. & Yes, jaz shuts down & the akai restarts it. That may be the root of the issue...hmmm
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:06 pm

cornutt wrote:The reliability of those Jaz drives was very poor. I've seen them used in number of applications and they all failed within a year or two. I'd be a bit surprised to come across one that still works.
I keep hearing this. I have a couple versions, SCSI. One I found at goodwill & the other a guy gave to me. Both seem to work well, so far...
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Jabberwalky » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:29 pm

The most maddening issue I've had was that most of the time, the zip drives would work ok on boot. I could load sounds, and work on stuff. However, whenever I made the best patch ever made in existence, it would freeze during the saving process. When that happens enough, you'll make the switch ;)

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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:29 am

Jabberwalky wrote:The most maddening issue I've had was that most of the time, the zip drives would work ok on boot. I could load sounds, and work on stuff. However, whenever I made the best patch ever made in existence, it would freeze during the saving process. When that happens enough, you'll make the switch ;)
Speaking from two decades ago...I didn't have that type of issue with my ASR/Zip combo. I used it quite a bit but, I only owned 1 zip & it was new at that time. Of course, the units are all probably close to 20years old, now so....I best be diligent about saving & backup
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by blueknob » Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:31 am

Jabberwalky wrote:The most maddening issue ...... whenever I made the best patch ever made in existence, it would freeze during the saving process. ...
Hope you don't mind me cropping your message.

Oh yes so very true!! Even with my sooopa dooopa scsi set up this still happens! So now I have a box of clean formatted floppies at hand ready to catch that moment. Usually on a crash, provided I can still get access to "CHANGE STORAGE DEVICE" I change to floppy and save the file, then reboot and reload, usually the first thing is to transfer the saved file from floppy onto the scsi storage device. I too use a scsi2cf scsiforsamplers device, although I've had one or two lockups with that too.

Just a note: does size matter? I found that because the files for the EPS16+ are relatively small, the 100MB ZIPs were good as they got busy just enough. I did use 2GB HDs but the files got lost in the huge directory trees so it became unmanagable. Plus there was a larger loss when the HD died which many did. I almost think Seagate add a little "time to die" code in the HD as I had so many failures, all resisted formatting of any type.

Know too, a EPS16+ directory can only contain 38 files. This is where it can get messy, as a directory can contain 38 more directories so although that isn't a restriction as such, it does get messy when the directories are 5+ deep, hence I resort to EDM to keep a fresh listing.

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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Sat Oct 29, 2016 4:53 pm

blueknob wrote:
Jabberwalky wrote:The most maddening issue ...... whenever I made the best patch ever made in existence, it would freeze during the saving process. ...
Hope you don't mind me cropping your message.

Oh yes so very true!! Even with my sooopa dooopa scsi set up this still happens! So now I have a box of clean formatted floppies at hand ready to catch that moment. Usually on a crash, provided I can still get access to "CHANGE STORAGE DEVICE" I change to floppy and save the file, then reboot and reload, usually the first thing is to transfer the saved file from floppy onto the scsi storage device. I too use a scsi2cf scsiforsamplers device, although I've had one or two lockups with that too.

Just a note: does size matter? I found that because the files for the EPS16+ are relatively small, the 100MB ZIPs were good as they got busy just enough. I did use 2GB HDs but the files got lost in the huge directory trees so it became unmanagable. Plus there was a larger loss when the HD died which many did. I almost think Seagate add a little "time to die" code in the HD as I had so many failures, all resisted formatting of any type.

Know too, a EPS16+ directory can only contain 38 files. This is where it can get messy, as a directory can contain 38 more directories so although that isn't a restriction as such, it does get messy when the directories are 5+ deep, hence I resort to EDM to keep a fresh listing.
Thanks for the reminder. All the little things are starting to come back, now. Sold my ASR 15years ago. Relearning on the eps16. Feels like coming home, though!
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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by madtheory » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:11 pm

The Zip freezing sounds like a SCSI termination issue to me. Especially because Hyde reports never having that problem. Either there is something before the Zip that has termination on, or there isn't any termination at the end of the SCSI chain. I had this issue with an ESI4000 many years ago (also had Mac, 4GB HD, CD ROM and CD-R in the chain. Great setup). Watch out for it- some manufacturers would have termination on by default, or only changeable with switches inside the device. I think in my system the Traxdata CD-R had internal termination "on".

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Re: ENSONIQ EPS16+ & Zip Jaz drives

Post by Hyde » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:26 pm

My life has this developing motto of Step away & let the mind breathe. So, I just returned to my issue of Zip drives failing to stay connected, after I read that re saving OS to a new floppy can fix some issues. I started with a new approach. Newly copied OS provided the same results. I woke up the next morning & decided to to try to format a new zip disk with No O.S. The machine (EPS 16 plus keyboard) which had never worked properly started working flawlessly. A couple days now, w/o issue. The one thing I noticed is that some commands call up information from the OS, even when using the SCSI drive. My theory here, still in its infancy, is that the rack & keyboard must have some firmware differences that cause the OS on the SCSI drive to conflict with the OS on the floppy. Thus causing the disconnection & corruption of the OS on the SCSI, causing the rack unit to have the same issue. Those who know these machines better maybe will shed more light? I'm damn happy to have the SCSI drive running again. How I loathe floppy's
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