so Juno 60's are about £1000 now? what the h**l?!

[jxalex]

I said in a similar way to someone long time ago which was like "why not to replace a chick with doll instead too?".
But I said so only becouse thats the only thing HE understood.

However I do not really agree with that comparison, sir. Becouse any hardware synthesizer is better than sex. To me. Well that sex is highly overrated and I do not understand how some people are addicted about it. It can never make me feel so good as good music or dealing with electronics (which I do infact becouse of music!!!).
So, there are much other rewarding activities.
I get MUCH better feelings when constructing a new circuit, listening music, I hear music when sleeping at night, and it does not need so much to get high -- just switch on synthesizers and compose some music. After a 16 hours music session I fall asleep. And... next day, although I wake up quite late, feeling weak, but I STILL have that emotion and feeling in my head and the first thought is "waaaooo, these MEGAsessions I have to repeat again!".
I remember clearly finishing my first amplifier, 11 channel stereo mixerboard, Juno-chorus module...admiration.
Certainly I got many many big rewards in this case from that activity. While about sex -- next day I wake up, only one thought is "and is it ALL?" and find disappointed somehow and women say "others would kill for sex, but for you it is next to none".
Yes, I really love... synthesizers. I remember every detail about them, when I got them, their packaging material, and if I brought myself or postman was on the door... in every detail. I can tell stories about this favourite topic.
Latest acquisiton to me was the second Juno-106 becouse -- I saw that broken synth and I wanted to repair it so it would be fully alive again.

The synthesizers are my big love next to demoscene and trackers.
_______________________________________________________
thats How I Learned to Stop Worrying and began to Love Bombing

[ppg_wavecomputer]

This is getting a bit weird here.

Did you take your pills, and if so, where do I get these as well?

Stephen

[Solderman]

THIS is very bizzarre if someone says that "(I love it, but) cannot afford that synth any longer", just after he will see that his synthesizer price went up...

I meant only someone buying an already high-priced and in-demand synth, not selling. But I should propose my own experience into the idea of selling, in that I owned several vintage synths that over time began to get neglected. The demand for them was still there, so they were sold. Of course if you still loved it, you would want to keep it, no argument there.

...buying something expensive, only if having cash to spare, makes sense only if it requires also sustained constant maintenance...

Well what I meant was just enough cash to spare to buy a vintage synth in the first place. I did not intend to mean overhead costs after the fact, but admit it should be considered.
I was thinking more that you do not need vintage at all. They are totally optional. To make the choice of buying vintage these days is often with intent to make some improvement to your production. Or for a few, it is purchased simply out of self-indulgence(nothing else will do) or as a status symbol, due to demand and price. (I have something nice and you don't syndrome) In other words, the reason for choosing vintage has changed in the last 10-15 years or so, especially with all the recent choices available in analogue synthesis.

It doesn't even make sense to continue to be a collector anymore unless you are very wealthy.

I really do not understand -- why not? ...

Gear acquisition can become an addiction. If you are a collector of vintage synths, and you are just recently starting your collection, I would think you should already be fairly wealthy. This was not the case 25 years ago. I bought a Oberheim OBXa for $400 shipped with anvil case in late 1996, and I considered this affordable compared to the Akai S2800 sampler I had just paid $1100 for. I see the Oberheims go for over $2000 now, at least. That's much higher than 20 years of inflation.

Also we bought synths in first place because we LIKED it!

Agreed. Like them, use them, keep them if you can afford to. Not always an option if you don't have a consistent source of income or expenses get out of control.
The demand for vintage continues to increase, so I am making the assumption they will hold their value, like a good investment should. Assuming you did not pay too much for it in the first place, you can get your money back on the sale plus some profit.

And if anything in music creation is based on how much the tools will cost or getting tools just to get money then it is better to not make music at all or tools which do not need constant money throwing in it -- software.

One of my implied points was that you may have already tried software or some other cheaper and newer hardware and been dissatisfied with the results. To buy something more expensive and risky is an investment, however you intend to use it.
Admittedly, there are some who only buy them at a relatively reduced cost and immediately flip them for a profit. This still qualifies as a short-term investment.

I'm not touching the family comments. Eh, nope.

[colmon]

I said in a similar way to someone long time ago which was like "why not to replace a chick with doll instead too?".
But I said so only becouse thats the only thing HE understood.

However I do not really agree with that comparison, sir. Becouse any hardware synthesizer is better than sex. To me. Well that sex is highly overrated and I do not understand how some people are addicted about it. It can never make me feel so good as good music or dealing with electronics (which I do infact becouse of music!!!).
So, there are much other rewarding activities.
I get MUCH better feelings when constructing a new circuit, listening music, I hear music when sleeping at night, and it does not need so much to get high -- just switch on synthesizers and compose some music. After a 16 hours music session I fall asleep. And... next day, although I wake up quite late, feeling weak, but I STILL have that emotion and feeling in my head and the first thought is "waaaooo, these MEGAsessions I have to repeat again!".
I remember clearly finishing my first amplifier, 11 channel stereo mixerboard, Juno-chorus module...admiration.
Certainly I got many many big rewards in this case from that activity. While about sex -- next day I wake up, only one thought is "and is it ALL?" and find disappointed somehow and women say "others would kill for sex, but for you it is next to none".
Yes, I really love... synthesizers. I remember every detail about them, when I got them, their packaging material, and if I brought myself or postman was on the door... in every detail. I can tell stories about this favourite topic.
Latest acquisiton to me was the second Juno-106 becouse -- I saw that broken synth and I wanted to repair it so it would be fully alive again.

The synthesizers are my big love next to demoscene and trackers.
_______________________________________________________
thats How I Learned to Stop Worrying and began to Love Bombing

For me nothing beats gently inserting a jack lead into my Juno-60's behind, turning her on and making her moan with delight as I caress her knobs (I guess she's a lady boy ), my sweaty, heaving man mass convulsing in total analog ecstasy.

[jxalex]

Atleast someone really understood my question and answered. Thank You, Solderman.

just some notes more...

It doesn't even make sense to continue to be a collector anymore unless you are very wealthy.

I really do not understand -- why not? ...

Gear acquisition can become an addiction. If you are a collector of vintage synths, and you are just recently starting your collection,
/-/-/

oh yes, now it makes sense. You just left out that "just recently starting" part.
I started 10 years ago, and so that comment was not to me.

Last 4 years I havent bought any gear at all.

still, there are gearheads who on one point sold away most of their gear (the Packrat comics author).

Yes, G.A.S. is very contageous. however best way to have it under control is by sharing everything... info sharing, swapping gear, sharing with close friends (so, the same neighbourhood gearheads are not buying same synth twice), So sharing makes not only cheaper, but also healthier.

The demand for vintage continues to increase, so I am making the assumption they will hold their value, like a good investment should. Assuming you did not pay too much for it in the first place, you can get your money back on the sale plus some profit.

well, my synths are not anymore as they were in original factory configuration. Perhaps some are not so pleased with that. These are not cosmetical changes, but changes in hardware and it takes some time to take apart these upgrades if someone really is anxious and wants 100% stock model only. Even my most expensive item is modified, however the buyer do not notice the difference if he is using it as stock model.

well I have lost interest about the brand new gear after I think about that lead-free production nowadays (well, in these situations I get an urge to reverse engineer whatever if I have it or not) and the new rack synths nowadays are getting problematic like modern computers with software.

I'm not touching the family comments. Eh, nope.

vintagesynth site is its own mafia perhaps?

[jxalex]

This is getting a bit weird here.

Did you take your pills, and if so, where do I get these as well?

Stephen

synthesizers
music,
and some topics here which tend to be my favourites (about synthesizers and electronics) which
I admire. Perhaps thats how this site influences if just taking time to read and answer for couple hours.

So go ahead.

[ninja6485]

This was not the case 25 years ago. I bought a Oberheim OBXa for $400 shipped with anvil case in late 1996, and I considered this affordable compared to the Akai S2800 sampler I had just paid $1100 for. I see the Oberheims go for over $2000 now, at least. That's much higher than 20 years of inflation.

That time period was the exception rather than the rule. Vintage analog synths were massively undervalued at that time - it was only a matter of time until the market caught up. Compare their cost new adjusted for inflation to what they go for now to see more accurately how their value has changed over time. There's a thread right now where someone is asking how much to sell a hand full of oberheim synths for, and calculates the setup would have been equivalent to around $30,000 today. He's thinking of getting just under 8,000. In fact, I'm not sure if any of the vintage analog synths would have made money for their owner when inflation is calculated, had the owner bought it new... Unless you got a free 303 with your bass amp in the 80's of course!

[Bitexion]

Yeah those were the days when you could go into a thrift store and find a Jupiter-8 for $200
All those analogue polys were like soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dated, maan.

And they might even have thrown in a Minimoog on the deal for an extra $100 just to get rid of the damn thing

[jxalex]

Just a thought... why only Korg and Dave Smith made now a polysynth based on VCOs?

Why Roland and Yamaha dont come to this idea to make again just these synths which are now in cult status, instead of repackaging the same digital ROMpler synth on and on the last 10 years?

If the price is affordable, these will sell as hot cakes. Just like it was about Behringers V-VERB 2496 model...

[colmon]

Just a thought... why only Korg and Dave Smith made now a polysynth based on VCOs?

Why Roland and Yamaha dont come to this idea to make again just these synths which are now in cult status, instead of repackaging the same digital ROMpler synth on and on the last 10 years?

If the price is affordable, these will sell as hot cakes. Just like it was about Behringers V-VERB 2496 model...

Think of VCO polysynth as most beautiful supermodel woman and repackaged romper as grizzly unloveable sex worker. Now do the financials: which woman is most easiest to attain via monetary transaction? Simples. Then when you factor in quick and easy wank of software synth vs hot passionate love-making of analog, I think it is quite easy to see the answer to your question.

[jxalex]

No, I dont see it. Make a better example. It is very off.

Also I do not have to spend money on women, becouse the women themself buy gifts to me instead and try to get my attention. Women are not so important to spend money on them, or in other words -- they have no value in a monetary way.

[madtheory]

This is getting a bit weird here.

Did you take your pills, and if so, where do I get these as well?

Stephen

Yes it is weird. And you can keep your pills. I like to be able to think straight, most of the time.

[jxalex]

You are forgetting multitimbrality, waveform memory, sequencers function. The digital synth PCB is much smaller.
So, it costs more to them certainly to make one 24 voice dual-osc polysynth (48 VCOs... ) than one digital synth with 128 voices to put a huge development team on it.
Perhaps the more appropriate comparison would be in this case to compare a one fresh orange to a canned mixed fruit salad and becouse of storage the canned salad can be cheaper.

Still... I see it this way... they keep development costs minimal and perhaps they downsized long time ago that hardware synthesizer development team. And they really have huge development costs and thats why such a giant cannot launch a new team to develop analog polysynth unless it really sells in zillions. So the only thing they can do is just re-using the same established formula -- just to keep development costs minimal.
They have done JV1080, JV2080, XV3080, XV5080... etc ... which is like just similar schematic and nothing is done from the scratch. By repackaging the next synth then this way they can re-use the same formula!

But with that increasing packing densiti it went wrong with their Integra-7 -- that module crashes, misses notes, etc... however that Roland Juno-G is very troublesome firmware, buggy as h**l too!
But to make analog polysynth making from the scratch is like launching totally new team and to them there is not enough market for such a large corporation to pay off that development enough. Thats why it is more affordable to more smaller companies like Dave Smith Instruments....
Just a thought.

[Solderman]

well, my synths are not anymore as they were in original factory configuration...Even my most expensive item is modified...

Similar situation here. All I have now is newer analogues and older modified ones. I did have an offer on my CS-15 recently, though. Only fell through because of shipping costs.

well I have lost interest about the brand new gear after I think about that lead-free production nowadays...

Old manufacturing techniques, older design and components; Agreed these are part of what makes vintage synth behavior more desirable, and therefore more costly. Newer SMT designs based on old schematics still sound good to me, not merely "good enough". Better than software for certain!

This was not the case 25 years ago....

That time period was the exception rather than the rule. Vintage analog synths were massively undervalued at that time...

I was approaching this idea only from a collector's standpoint at this period of time. Great time to collect analogue synths on the cheap!

Just a thought... why only Korg and Dave Smith made now a polysynth based on VCOs? Why Roland and Yamaha dont come to this idea to make again just these synths which are now in cult status, instead of repackaging the same digital ROMpler synth on and on the last 10 years?

Yes, thank you; now I'm back on the thread topic. There are numerous discussions in forums on this subject, many of them on this forum. The gist of it, as I understand it, is it ain't easy to design, mass-manufacture and maintain a VCO polysynth, even under digital control, and make it affordable. Even finding the team of engineers and reliable components for the design as you mentioned these days is difficult, let alone get access to the manufacturing requirements to mass-produce them.
Roland and Yamaha are building software simulations because as you mention, they already have a reliable design template to build computers that run software, and stand to make a much bigger profit while still selling them for a much lower cost. Their business model doesn't even permit costly risks since they must sell in such large quantities, so the more people buy Korg Minilogues and Sequential Prophet 6's, the more they will consider the increase in market share worthy of designing a product for. Or something like that.

I have a theory that the Roland Jupiter 8, with something like only about 2,000 units produced, with no cost-cutting measures and being very well designed and built, may have never turned a profit for Roland. Look at all the cheaper models in subsequent years they sold in much larger numbers after its release, and that their business took off from there. I believe the intent was for Roland to show the world they could make a top-of-the-line, quality, professional product, exposing their value in the market and get people buying their products versus the mostly American competition at the time. An investment, if you will.(There's that word again.)

[ninja6485]

I was approaching this idea only from a collector's standpoint at this period of time. Great time to collect analogue synths on the cheap!

I wish I had been interested in making music then! I was probably playing with Legos or something in the mid 90's!

This is getting a bit weird here.

Did you take your pills, and if so, where do I get these as well?

Stephen

Yes it is weird. And you can keep your pills. I like to be able to think straight, most of the time.

No, I dont see it. Make a better example. It is very off.

Also I do not have to spend money on women, becouse the women themself buy gifts to me instead and try to get my attention. Women are not so important to spend money on them, or in other words -- they have no value in a monetary way.

You won't see it. I'm not sure why Colman is still able to post here, but it's generally an accepted practice to completely ignore him. I suggest you do likewise. Just browse through his post history on VSE and it will be apparent why. He's trying to keep the sexual weirdness of the thread going, so don't feed the troll. No one (else) wants to know the details about who's spending what within their interpersonal relationships, lasting or casual.