NAMM 2017

Discussions about anything analog, digital, MIDI, synth technology, techniques, theories and more.
User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by griffin avid » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:39 pm

Well the turn over could be for a lot of reasons. If there is even some anomaly in quick flips....
If it was a "flaw" you'd be hearing about it. Buyers would be going crazy and ranting for fixes. And only after a year or two do people give up hope and replace beloved gear.

DSI gear has never been overhyped so it can't be from some sort of buyers remorse. And they deliver what they advertise so hmmm.....

Still I think their stuff is rightly costly and although worth the coin they ask, it still might be too much to tie up in 1 board. So maybe it's about funds more than the synth.


As far as the Juno-g is concerned, I don't see how that's relevant. It's a midlevel board that was weirdly crammed with features and had a screen flaw that frustrated uses for years. It's not part of the Di lines that followed and it's not truly part of the fantom series either. Aside from shared patches or sounds, the integra, Juno g and even sonic cell seem like cousins and not brothers or sisters. Roland has proved that names are just names.

Roland seem all over the place for the time being. They got ROMpler engines, va stuffs, true synthesis and all sorts of modeling going on and even some analog thrown in. Right now they could make anything and it'd fit. Their next flagship? It will probably mix all these approaches and be some kind of Frankenstein beast.

Sure, why not?

And to be honest, I only count the big stuff.... Dropped notes or bad MIDI implementation or sequencer/sync stuff. One guy writing six paragraphs that the EG on patch 207 won't reset with the lfo and third filter all the way open is not a significant flaw in my opinion. And although that guy is very upset, I don't know if that gets me on his bash the whole company bandwagon.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers
Location: Exton/ westchester

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by ninja6485 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:13 pm

How do we even know there's quick turn around with them? Just because it looks like there are a lot if them for sale to some members of the forum? That's highly dubious criteria. It's probably just the normal amount of them populating the used market.

You can't infer that, because it looks like there's a lot for sale on the used market, that there's something wrong with the synth for these reasons:
1 it's no where near clear that the premise is actually the case, and

2 people are known to buy and sell synths impulsively. A year is a long time for some people, unless it's a favorite piece. They get bored fast, and they always want something new. They're unhappy with what they're doing musically, and they want something new to breathe life into their music. Some people always want to have the latest instruments, and some people buy what they can't afford. Others enjoy having a long list of gear that they've used in the past. They feel it makes them seem experienced, even if they've only had the gear for a short time. People travel this way too: seeing a ton of countries at once, each briefly.
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

greggybud
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:52 am
Gear: DSI Polyevolver, Mopho
Ensoniq VFX-SD-2, ESQ-R
Oberheim OB-8, OB-12, M-1000
Moog Voyager
Nord 2
Yamaha TX-802
Roland D-550
Emu Morpheus, Vintage Keys
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by greggybud » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:51 am

jxalex wrote:i am suspecting that there are some flaws or something is going on, becouse it is quite inefficient to sell right after couple month brand new synthesizer with such price.
I would suspect the "flaws" were discussed in this thread:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... a-221.html

I don't know of any flaws myself. You either like the sound or you don't. Maybe the "Sequential" and "Prophet 6" name plates look a bit ugly? It's not a re-issue. I think Dave is very happy with the number of units sold.

6,618 posts, many of which are owners, I think the "flaws" would be discussed.

Isn't it about supply and demand? Capitalism? IIRC, the first units shipped in May 2015 with a price just under 3k. I purchased mine new December 2015 for $2100 from Pro Audio Star, and that is still a good price today. There will always be customers who purchase then change their minds for various reasons. Some might purchase and plan to take a small loss by selling a few months later.

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by griffin avid » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:24 am

You're about to upset me with that stupid link to gearslutz that you DIDN'T READ YOURSELF.

I did....all...of....it.....

pages 1- 55 are speculation about a synth that NONE of them have heard or used. Same thing here on VSE all the time, nothing new really. Uninformed speculation that's fun to do and interesting to read.
Dominated by the sentiment: "Oh my god, take MY MONEY to Dave for president to Oh my gawd, why didn't they make an XYZ instead.

55- 100 are off-topic about synths with effects and modulation options etc...
Then there's personal stories from everyone's childhood about their first DSI synth....lol


and 100- 119 are two guys arguing about who said what, inferred what and semantics etc....

Back on topic is EVERYONE who got one gushing about its sound. One guy getting it and staring at it for 20 minutes. (lol again)

Finally 1 guy is complaining about micro-tuning possible being off and contacting DSI, but never saying what happened and the other is a complaint about the knobs.

What FLAWS are you talking about and where is the hint to the big sell-off?
In those 6,000 posts, ONE GUY cancelled his pre-order.


C'mon dude.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
meatballfulton
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5819
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 pm
Gear: Logic Pro X

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by meatballfulton » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:22 pm

Gearslutz's electonic music forum is actually a comedy forum :lol:
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

User avatar
ranzee
Active Member
Active Member
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:07 pm
Real name: Ranz
Gear: http://www.ranzs.com/gear-list/
Band: ranzee ranz

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by ranzee » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:29 pm

jxalex wrote:I expect nothing from there. If we are buying with eyes, then just looking the pictures is more than enough to me, becouse behind that cosmetic packaging is still a troublesome hardware with 10 years old same problems which the manufacturers havent repaired!

Nothing really interesting to me in a brandnew gear when it comes to these big 3 synthesizer manufacturers.


BECOUSE...
Roland Juno-G has problems with MIDI. It has been 10 years for now.
Also the "flagship" Yamaha MOTIF ES rack, remember its midi timing? (About XS rack I dont know really).
And problematic Roland Integra-7 which crashes and is not therefore suitable for a live use. Useful just like a clock which you cant adjust to set correct time.
And from Korg... nothing new really since Triton.

HOw many times they try to sell the same fish in a different packaging? :D

Their brand new ones are for 1500EUR, but as time goes by they are in second hand for 400 EUR already (Roland Juno-D and Juno-G for example). But I would not buy the latest synth model from them not even for a 200USD which was such flaws!

Yes, there are lately some new (which are old design) synths, but how come that they
...dont make it fault-free? (Korg Monologue)
...polyphony which is up to modern technology standards
...affordable (DeepMind 12 price is as the crazy auction for 30 year old JX8P)

The Dave Smith Instruments have done their Oberheim OB-6 and Prophet 6, but cant say why actually the customers dont say out loud why just after couple months they SELL that brand new synthesizer!
Actually, Korg have led the pack in terms of sales and releases to market. Roland are coming close second. They had no idea the Minilogue would be so popular, so much they had to increase the numbers made at the factory. They are still selling the MicroKorg - which I got back in 2008 - 8 years later, the thing is still no.1

Roland are pulling surprises out late last year with the new Boutiques and the System-8. Most people who got the System-8 are raving about it. They have done well with the AIRA range. For all those analog purists - Roland have released quite a few analog synths - JD-XA, JD-Xi and System-500 ...

For me, the question remains: will Yamaha do something analog again?

greggybud
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:52 am
Gear: DSI Polyevolver, Mopho
Ensoniq VFX-SD-2, ESQ-R
Oberheim OB-8, OB-12, M-1000
Moog Voyager
Nord 2
Yamaha TX-802
Roland D-550
Emu Morpheus, Vintage Keys
Location: Eugene, Oregon

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by greggybud » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:28 am

griffin avid wrote:You're about to upset me with that stupid link to gearslutz that you DIDN'T READ YOURSELF.

I did....all...of....it.....

pages 1- 55 are speculation about a synth that NONE of them have heard or used. Same thing here on VSE all the time, nothing new really. Uninformed speculation that's fun to do and interesting to read.
Dominated by the sentiment: "Oh my god, take MY MONEY to Dave for president to Oh my gawd, why didn't they make an XYZ instead.

55- 100 are off-topic about synths with effects and modulation options etc...
Then there's personal stories from everyone's childhood about their first DSI synth....lol


and 100- 119 are two guys arguing about who said what, inferred what and semantics etc....

Back on topic is EVERYONE who got one gushing about its sound. One guy getting it and staring at it for 20 minutes. (lol again)

Finally 1 guy is complaining about micro-tuning possible being off and contacting DSI, but never saying what happened and the other is a complaint about the knobs.

What FLAWS are you talking about and where is the hint to the big sell-off?
In those 6,000 posts, ONE GUY cancelled his pre-order.


C'mon dude.
:lol: I love your analysis of that thread and IMO pretty much correct. But as you read, as well as myself, there wasn't much if any discussion about "flaws." Could it be that there are none? :o

If you got good entertainment out of the Prophet 6 thread, then maybe try the Karp Odyssey thread where it is a re-issue and no one can agree with anyone else.

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by griffin avid » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:03 am

Maybe my next thought is wrong since it's off the head. But gear or synths seem to fit into ONLY two roles.
Studio and Stage. And gear seems more suited for one than the other. And us as users need to know which way something is supposed to go.

simple layout, Great tone, sculpting interface = gig
Deep feature set, editing interface = studio

And maybe that's it.
You want to make 'ear candy' and create UNHEARD OF sounds...icing on the cake....experiment....wild and clever additions to your sound, get a suitable STUDIO piece.

Want rock-solid. Great tone(s) out the gate and a simple performance interface with tons of expression options...get that live piece.

And it seems most complaints are from a person who buys one type and struggles to make it do the duties of the other. Of course ANY quality instrument CAN serve both roles, but will probably lean more towards one of those two directions by design. And honestly, that's probably the proper market they were pitching to.

NAMM will have some stuff for performers and the tinkerers will probably complain about the knobbage or the fact that the real estate is all generic, tone sculpting controls...


And the stuff for tinkerers will probably NOT be built like a tank...or make 'traditional' staple sounds so easily and the presets will probably ...suck...lol. And a performer will spend two minutes with it and say they weren't impressed.
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
meatballfulton
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5819
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:29 pm
Gear: Logic Pro X

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by meatballfulton » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:03 pm

Korg has announced a white MS20 mini.

Image
I listened to Hatfield and the North at Rainbow. They were very wonderful and they made my heart a prisoner.

User avatar
Psy_Free
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:36 pm
Gear: Synths 'n' stuff.
Band: Klangzeit
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by Psy_Free » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:13 pm

I saw this the other day & thought it looks like a terrible amateur DIY job.
"Any noise is good. For what is a different matter"
Bandcamp 1
Bandcamp 2
Soundcloud

User avatar
griffin avid
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 1568
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 11:08 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by griffin avid » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:10 pm

Details seem hard to read/see.
I can see this being hard to operate under certain conditions.

Not trying to be a doubter....
Music Product: Better Sounds for Beats http://www.StudioAVX.com
Music Production: Resources and Research http://www.ProducersEdgeMagazine.com
Music Produced: Abstract Hip Hop Sci-Fi: http://www.TheDynamicUniverse.com

User avatar
Walter Ego
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:17 pm
Gear: Various noisemakers hidden around my home and classroom. And a great quantity of caffeine.
Band: 12"VS
Location: Near Boston

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by Walter Ego » Fri Jan 13, 2017 6:40 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Gearslutz's electonic music forum is actually a comedy forum :lol:
So very, very true. I often find it provides hours of entertainment.

Unfortunately, it's becoming a magnet for CEOs and company reps; paradoxically, it's one of the first places that synth news breaks. So I take the absurd with the breaking news...
Walter Ego
seamonkey wrote:I nominate this for STUPIDEST THREAD ever in the history of the internez. ;)

User avatar
ninja6485
Synth Explorer
Synth Explorer
Posts: 2766
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 pm
Gear: Virus Ti, Jx-8p, Juno 60, Radias, Maschine, 101,303,606,707,727,808,909, odyssey, mirage, akai s5K/s2K/s1k, drumtraks, E6400ult, M1R, rx5, fizmo,d50
Band: Lyra, The Sun Worshipers
Location: Exton/ westchester

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by ninja6485 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:01 pm

meatballfulton wrote:Korg has announced a white MS20 mini.

Image
The new Korg Eye Exam monophonic synthesizer: "If you can use this, you don't need glasses!"
This looks like a psychotropic reaction. No wonder it's so popular...

User avatar
supermel74
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 962
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:56 am
Location: Maine
Contact:

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by supermel74 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:09 pm

That's just awful. Any new color scheme would be better than that, except pink.

User avatar
30h5
Supporting Member!
Supporting Member!
Posts: 249
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:30 am
Gear: SH-2, JV-880, D-110, M-1000, CS-15, FR-777, FR-XS, ESQ-1
Location: Berkshire, NY

Re: NAMM 2017

Post by 30h5 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:13 pm

supermel74 wrote:That's just awful. Any new color scheme would be better than that, except pink.
I don't know, the camo X50 was pretty bad too.

Post Reply