What do you want from Moog?

8bit9bot · Post by **8bit9bot** » Mon May 26, 2014 10:37 pm

an exact model D reissue w/ the exact original components and sound... if they did that and offered w/ optional patch memory + midi i would be interested in buying from them (finally) - voyager is not close enough to what i described

Hallu · Post by **Hallu** » Mon May 26, 2014 10:42 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:Products made for musicians that are well-built, meticulously designed, and possessed of unmatched aural beauty. (which is to say, pretty much the opposite of MIDI/USB/digital-interface-between-the-knobs-and-circuits/IC-laden/low-build-quality/aimed-at-the-largest-market/increasingly-EDM-focused stuff that's increasingly happening now)

"Analog purity" as a concept needs to stop. Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. Reading the quoted post seems like you took some rant about anti-fluoride and anti-vaccine beliefs, removed some of the nouns and verbs, and made a MadLibs.

ppg_wavecomputer · Post by **ppg_wavecomputer** » Mon May 26, 2014 11:15 pm

Hallu wrote:[...] Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. [...]

Ouch!

That remark was spot-on.

Stephen

Poptones · Post by **Poptones** » Mon May 26, 2014 11:46 pm

Automatic Gainsay wrote:
Poptones wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Or, a return to the sound and design that made the Moog name famous.
Products made for musicians that are well-built, meticulously designed, and possessed of unmatched aural beauty.
(which is to say, pretty much the opposite of MIDI/USB/digital-interface-between-the-knobs-and-circuits/IC-laden/low-build-quality/aimed-at-the-largest-market/increasingly-EDM-focused stuff that's increasingly happening now)
Why are you of the opinion that current Moog synths aren't well-built?
Unfortunately, it isn't my opinion.
How much MIDI/CV work have you done with your Minitaur?

Only MIDI work, which has been improved with the new editor and firmware (although I didn't really have any problems before, despite the quirks everyone was experiencing with the former editor). But then I'm one of those, who is fine with the "MIDI/USB/digital-interface-between-the-knobs-and-circuits" as I don't consider it to be a bad thing if analog hardware integrates in the workflow of a DAW - something I mention not to provoke you.
When you wrote about the build quality, I thought you were referring to how the current instruments are assembled in general. And with regard to the Minitaur, I think that it's built like a tank.

Poptones · Post by **Poptones** » Tue May 27, 2014 12:39 am

Hallu wrote:"Analog purity" as a concept needs to stop. Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. Reading the quoted post seems like you took some rant about anti-fluoride and anti-vaccine beliefs, removed some of the nouns and verbs, and made a MadLibs.

Well, I think "analog purity" is alright. There should just be an awareness of it being a niche market label, whether you prefer it over other things or not. And some of the more recent purely analog instruments sell only relatively well because they are so affordable - from the Volca Series via the Micro and MiniBrute to the MS-20 Mini.
Of course, there is a network of more then only 10 people who are into analog modular stuff, but I can't see that many of the more traditional synth companies would consider them to be their main costumers (I'm not thinking of Yamaha or Roland). And particulary Moog is still somewhat in between, if you consider the Moogerfooger line and enhancements like the CP-251. Business-wise it would be suicidal for them to ignore the integration of analog hardware into digital recording environments. After all, Moog is a company, and a company wants to make at least some profit in order to be able to survive. Add to that the fact that it might not be the most compelling job for an engineer to design instruments that could have been designed 30 years ago.

Automatic Gainsay · Post by **Automatic Gainsay** » Tue May 27, 2014 1:02 am

Hallu wrote:
Automatic Gainsay wrote:Products made for musicians that are well-built, meticulously designed, and possessed of unmatched aural beauty. (which is to say, pretty much the opposite of MIDI/USB/digital-interface-between-the-knobs-and-circuits/IC-laden/low-build-quality/aimed-at-the-largest-market/increasingly-EDM-focused stuff that's increasingly happening now)
"Analog purity" as a concept needs to stop. Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. Reading the quoted post seems like you took some rant about anti-fluoride and anti-vaccine beliefs, removed some of the nouns and verbs, and made a MadLibs.

What the f**k is "analog purity?"

Automatic Gainsay · Post by **Automatic Gainsay** » Tue May 27, 2014 1:17 am

Poptones wrote:Well, I think "analog purity" is alright. There should just be an awareness of it being a niche market label, whether you prefer it over other things or not. And some of the more recent purely analog instruments sell only relatively well because they are so affordable - from the Volca Series via the Micro and MiniBrute to the MS-20 Mini.
Of course, there is a network of more then only 10 people who are into analog modular stuff, but I can't see that many of the more traditional synth companies would consider them to be their main costumers (I'm not thinking of Yamaha or Roland). And particulary Moog is still somewhat in between, if you consider the Moogerfooger line and enhancements like the CP-251. Business-wise it would be suicidal for them to ignore the integration of analog hardware into digital recording environments. After all, Moog is a company, and a company wants to make at least some profit in order to be able to survive. Add to that the fact that it might not be the most compelling job for an engineer to design instruments that could have been designed 30 years ago.

I think the misunderstanding here comes from a lack of observation about the history of Moog synthesizers. Moog has a very specific niche. Unlike Roland and Korg and others who survived the DX7 and went on to implement digital, sampling, ROMpler, etc. technologies, Moog died at the onset of digital synths. When Big Briar started making Moogerfoogers, and then the Voyager... it didn't come back on the stage with a new digital etc. etc., Bob did what he knew best, and was best known for... analog technology.

Is the analog niche limited? You bet it is. But it also is currently extremely marketable. As plainly demonstrated by the fine work of Arturia and Korg lately. Of course, opening up to a wider market is always a desirable concept... but if you stray from the concept your market has in regard to your name, you do run the risk of destroying your market distinction or even reputation. Can Moog compete against Korg or Roland in the digital market? Good heavens no! But Moog has a respected niche. Historically, they are known for high-end high-quality analog synthesizers. What will happen to the market perception if they start turning out tiny digital objects with the Moog name slapped on them? I suspect nothing good. They will wade out into a market that is dominated by companies with a great deal more production strength than they possess.

So yes, Moog is very definitely trying to widen its market... but it is a path fraught with danger for a small company from a very specific niche market. I know a lot of kids think ANYTHING WITH THE MOOG NAME ON IT IS GOOD... and that's what Moog is trying to bank on. But lately, they haven't been really capturing the hearts of even their own niche market. As demonstrated by what people are saying about the aluminum Voyager and the issues with Minitaurs and Sub Phattys.

wordsdrawnigh · Post by **wordsdrawnigh** » Tue May 27, 2014 1:34 am

Hallu wrote: "Analog purity" as a concept needs to stop. Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. Reading the quoted post seems like you took some rant about anti-fluoride and anti-vaccine beliefs, removed some of the nouns and verbs, and made a MadLibs.

right, because you have to be a crazy Tea Party nut to be suspicious of fluoride and vaccines... but please, don't mind me, feel free to embrace their nuclear waste products and mysterious concoctions (that actually cause the diseases they supposedly prevent, contain cancer-causing viruses, etc.)!

Automatic Gainsay · Post by **Automatic Gainsay** » Tue May 27, 2014 1:44 am

ppg_wavecomputer wrote:
Hallu wrote:[...] Y'all are the Tea Party of synth purveyours. [...]
Ouch!

That remark was spot-on.

Stephen

Stephen, I'm sure you have an excellent grasp of the problematic nature of the Tea Party. From Germany.

commodorejohn · Post by **commodorejohn** » Tue May 27, 2014 2:28 am

This thread is about to derail gloriously. Get me some popcorn, somebody.

Post by **Stab Frenzy** » Tue May 27, 2014 3:02 am

8bit9bot wrote:an exact model D reissue w/ the exact original components and sound... if they did that and offered w/ optional patch memory + midi

…everyone would complain that the digital circuits that scanned the pots made it sound different, and the original ones had some indefinable quality which made them better. Even if they sounded exactly the same.

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I would like:

[snip] a return to the sound and design that made the Moog name famous.
Products made for musicians that are well-built, meticulously designed, and possessed of unmatched aural beauty.

You're looking in the wrong place if you want that from Moog, but it's out there. Being made by Ken Macbeth and others.

Sensory · Post by **Sensory** » Tue May 27, 2014 3:23 am

wordsdrawnigh wrote: right, because you have to be a crazy Tea Party nut to be suspicious of fluoride and vaccines... but please, don't mind me, feel free to embrace their nuclear waste products and mysterious concoctions (that actually cause the diseases they supposedly prevent, contain cancer-causing viruses, etc.)!

Wha ? And all this time I thought hydrofluorosilicic acid was preventing me from getting cavities.

Sensory · Post by **Sensory** » Tue May 27, 2014 3:27 am

Automatic Gainsay wrote:I would like:

An Animoog keyboard. A physical device with a long iPad-like keyboard-shaped glass panel. I would snap that up in a second.

Or, a return to the sound and design that made the Moog name famous.
Products made for musicians that are well-built, meticulously designed, and possessed of unmatched aural beauty.
(which is to say, pretty much the opposite of MIDI/USB/digital-interface-between-the-knobs-and-circuits/IC-laden/low-build-quality/aimed-at-the-largest-market/increasingly-EDM-focused stuff that's increasingly happening now)

Cool idea. Sounds like a modern Moog spin on a continuum or something. The animoog is a surprisingly expressive instrument on ipad.

synthroom · Post by **synthroom** » Tue May 27, 2014 4:28 am

Sensory wrote:
wordsdrawnigh wrote: right, because you have to be a crazy Tea Party nut to be suspicious of fluoride and vaccines... but please, don't mind me, feel free to embrace their nuclear waste products and mysterious concoctions (that actually cause the diseases they supposedly prevent, contain cancer-causing viruses, etc.)!
Wha ? And all this time I thought hydrofluorosilicic acid was preventing me from getting cavities.

You need to watch "Dr. Strangelove" if you want to learn the truth about fluoride... My god, they want to put it in childrens drinking water!
E O P
O P E
P O E

synthroom · Post by **synthroom** » Tue May 27, 2014 4:35 am

I lived through the 80s, and other than the Minimoog, the Source, and the Memorymoog, Moog was thought of as a synth company with bad management that other than a couple cool dinosaur products, made some pretty cheap and crappy synths.

Roland and Yamaha left Moog behind in the dust.

What do you want from Moog?

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