Say I'm Your Number One (Princess, Stock/Aitken/Waterman) - Synths (And some WEG stuff!)

[synthroom]

Obviously the dry bass replayed from the Fairlight doesn't sound the same as the produced record - it's much drier, and the bass part is less interesting and certainly less processed. I wasn't sure whether this was a regular bass they'd made for the live playback sequences, or the demo Fairlight sequence used when writing, which was redone in the studio.

How certain are you that these parts were resampled from the masters, versus parts that were used for pre-production/live use?

I'm certain it's not a disk from the original recording, rather it was made in preparation for a world tour that never happened. The sequencing and sampling for it were done by Ade Cook. The liner notes from the Please: Remastered reissue from 2009 seems to corroborate this.

In addition to that, I've listened to an audio dump of a SONY F1 PCM tape that had copies of the master for Ade to make the samples. It's kind of awesome as you can hear bleed through from adjacent tracks on it in parts.

PS - sorry for the late reply!

[synthroom]

Synthroom: thanks for taking the time to show us your Fairlight WEG stuff, it was illuminating. The instant I heard that Hi-Hat I knew something was going on, then when reading your text, boom.. Dare LM-1 yeh. Also the Emu choir, good info.

What I find particulary amazing is these guys have the skill, talent and ability to make such great hits/songs. I think we all have much better kit in our home studios, but I for one just don't have their talent.

Ha! for sure. I definitely can't play anywhere as good as any of these people, nor do I have the imagination to boot!

[synthroom]

(Actually, this doesn't seem to be happening on disk 2, the one with two bass parts, and as one of those is (by name) the same sample WESTBASS as on disk 1, I guess the kick is not embedded in this sample, it's just part of the kick part..)

Interesting observation. But keep in mind, these were what Ade was programming for the tour. He may have made some changes to allow Chris and Niel to play one synth each and have the rest programmed into the Fairlight.

PS - I love the work you've done with scanning in old mags! I'm so glad someone has done this. That said, I still have stacks of old synth mags. Going back to some Polyphony even! It was amazing what one could buy used in the mid-80s.

[madtheory]

In addition to that, I've listened to an audio dump of a SONY F1 PCM tape that had copies of the master for Ade to make the samples. It's kind of awesome as you can hear bleed through from adjacent tracks on it in parts.

[desmond]

PS - I love the work you've done with scanning in old mags! I'm so glad someone has done this. That said, I still have stacks of old synth mags. Going back to some Polyphony even! It was amazing what one could buy used in the mid-80s.

Thanks!

(If you have anything we need, you can always give me a shout!)

[desmond]

Stephen Hague answered some questions a Pet Shop Boys forum apparently, he was asked about the bass:

"Exactly how was that famous West End girls bass sound created?"

"If I recall, it was a combination of an Oberheim OBX, and a kick drum sound from a drum machine over midi. It was hand played… Everything was on that track, except the basic drum machine pattern."

And I have some more info on this, from one of the first magazines I bought in the mid-80s (I knew I had read about this before), which breaks the track down, shows the track list, and the house engineer responsible for the tracking and the mix, David Jacobs, mentions what it was...

How's that for a tease..?

[madtheory]

TELL US!!!!

[desmond]

Ok, let's spill it here before I spill on Twitter (it's a great article BTW ):

Composite Bass

"The bass part was done with three synths MIDI'd up: DX-7, Jupiter 6 and the Emulator II. The DX-7 voice was a very low pitched, percussive sound; it didn't have much of a note but it gave the thing depth and attack. The Jupiter provided the body of the sound, and the Emu II was actually playing a bass drum sample, the pitch of which changed as it was played on the keyboard to add some punch. Getting that sound took some time, and Steven also wanted it to be played by hand, rather than using a sequencer, because he felt that it would lend more fluidity to the track. It was a bit of an ordeal getting it in time with the drum machine, but I think in the end he was right and it sounded very good.

Here's the track list:

So - DX7 (I mean, 1984/85, there's going to be one lurking about somewhere!) & Jupiter 6!
Jupiter 6!!

Given that this interview was done in 1986 by the house engineer who tracked and mixed the song, just a year after it was made, and the engineers tend to have a better handle on the gear that was used during sessions, I take this info as more reliable than Stephen Hague's "from memory it was an OBX" from 35 years later - although the other recollections about playing by hand etc match up.

And I always remembered this section of the article:

"Another element in the track is the traffic noise which Steve simply recorded on a Professional Walkman, with Dolby C, out in Gosfield Street where Advision is. Just across the road is Wham's office and there were dozens of young girls milling around when Steve was recording. Steve looks a bit like Sting and so you can hear on the tape the girls shouting "It's Sting, it's Sting". Also, one of them was singing Careless Whisper, which coincidentally was perfectly in tune with the track; so you can hear that too at the beginning of the record, just before the drums come in.

I read this issue of this mag so many times back in the day, that just seeing the scans again is quite remarkable how much each page was lurking in my mind somewhere.

So, another mystery solved.

The full article will of course be up on mu:zines at some point.

[Rumbler101]

Ok, let's spill it here before I spill on Twitter (it's a great article BTW ):

Composite Bass

"The bass part was done with three synths MIDI'd up: DX-7, Jupiter 6 and the Emulator II. The DX-7 voice was a very low pitched, percussive sound; it didn't have much of a note but it gave the thing depth and attack. The Jupiter provided the body of the sound, and the Emu II was actually playing a bass drum sample, the pitch of which changed as it was played on the keyboard to add some punch. Getting that sound took some time, and Steven also wanted it to be played by hand, rather than using a sequencer, because he felt that it would lend more fluidity to the track. It was a bit of an ordeal getting it in time with the drum machine, but I think in the end he was right and it sounded very good.

Here's the track list:

weg_24t.jpg

So - DX7 (I mean, 1984/85, there's going to be one lurking about somewhere!) & Jupiter 6!
Jupiter 6!!

Given that this interview was done in 1986 by the house engineer who tracked and mixed the song, just a year after it was made, and the engineers tend to have a better handle on the gear that was used during sessions, I take this info as more reliable than Stephen Hague's "from memory it was an OBX" from 35 years later - although the other recollections about playing by hand etc match up.

And I always remembered this section of the article:

"Another element in the track is the traffic noise which Steve simply recorded on a Professional Walkman, with Dolby C, out in Gosfield Street where Advision is. Just across the road is Wham's office and there were dozens of young girls milling around when Steve was recording. Steve looks a bit like Sting and so you can hear on the tape the girls shouting "It's Sting, it's Sting". Also, one of them was singing Careless Whisper, which coincidentally was perfectly in tune with the track; so you can hear that too at the beginning of the record, just before the drums come in.

I read this issue of this mag so many times back in the day, that just seeing the scans again is quite remarkable how much each page was lurking in my mind somewhere.

So, another mystery solved.

The full article will of course be up on mu:zines at some point.

First time I've come here in a while but this is for Say I'm Your Number One? Wow, amazing. I love this song. I think a lot of the SAW stuff is a bit of the same old stuff, but this one in particular really stands out.

[desmond]

No, "West End Girls".

[Rumbler101]

No, "West End Girls".

Ahh okay, I did read the previous posts but obviously not too intently. Still, very cool.

[madtheory]

The full article will of course be up on mu:zines at some point.

Awesome. Looking forward to that. Playing it by hand explains a lot of the character of the track.

[synthroom]

"Another element in the track is the traffic noise which Steve simply recorded on a Professional Walkman, with Dolby C, out in Gosfield Street where Advision is. Just across the road is Wham's office and there were dozens of young girls milling around when Steve was recording. Steve looks a bit like Sting and so you can hear on the tape the girls shouting "It's Sting, it's Sting". Also, one of them was singing Careless Whisper, which coincidentally was perfectly in tune with the track; so you can hear that too at the beginning of the record, just before the drums come in.

This bit is on the PSB Sony PCM tape that I've heard that I mentioned earlier in this thread. You can plainly hear the "It's Sting, It's Sting" on it!

[desmond]

This bit is on the PSB Sony PCM tape that I've heard that I mentioned earlier in this thread. You can plainly hear the "It's Sting, It's Sting" on it!

Is that in the actual track? I've tried really hard, including iZotope RX'ing the intro part, and I can't reliably identify this. I can just hear a girl singing/calling something (which doesn't to me sound like "It's Sting" etc), and another part which is difficult to make out...

Maybe it's more identifiable from the raw recordings.

I also think the "Careless Whisper" part is incorrect...

[synthroom]

This bit is on the PSB Sony PCM tape that I've heard that I mentioned earlier in this thread. You can plainly hear the "It's Sting, It's Sting" on it!

Is that in the actual track? I've tried really hard, including iZotope RX'ing the intro part, and I can't reliably identify this. I can just hear a girl singing/calling something (which doesn't to me sound like "It's Sting" etc), and another part which is difficult to make out...

Maybe it's more identifiable from the raw recordings.

I also think the "Careless Whisper" part is incorrect...

I just loaded WEG and the street sample into Reaper, and it's pretty hard for me to hear what's being said on the original. It sounds to me like there are two girls' voices, and if my ear was better tuned to Cockney or Estuary English, I might be able to pick out what they say. You can hear one of them singing some. But her intonation and timing is kinda odd, so it makes it hard for me to tell what she says.

It looks like there are a couple of samples/recordings on the track I have. The first one runs about 1m40s - it starts with what sounds like traffic in the rain and then you hear the footsteps approaching. Then you hear the car horn honk twice - about 20 seconds into the sample as the footsteps continue. Then there are the voices along with more traffic. Around a minute in a passing jet aircraft can be heard and the first sample I have stops at that point and then immediately cuts to more ambient voices and traffic sounds for about 15 seconds.

On the song, a car horn honks twice at about 5 seconds in.

On the second sample/recording, you hear more traffic, and then about 15 seconds in you hear the girl's voice say "Sting!" followed by the second voice saying something, and then she says a bit more and says "Sting?" I tried some EQ to get rid of the traffic noise, but it didn't help me.

The sample in the song tracks pretty well with the first recording/sample I have - enough that they flange when I tried to sync them up together in Reaper.

So I'm gonna say that while there is someone saying "Sting" on the raw recordings that they made, that part didn't make it into the song. They used about 30 seconds from the first recording, and nothing from the second where the girl says "Sting."