Suggestions for hardware techno setup.

[Spaceheater184]

Let me start off by listing my current setup:

Roland TR-909
x0xb0x
FR Revolution
Roland JP-8000


Now...here is a link of the kind of sound I am trying to get at, and through using hardware.
I'm really interested in working actual snippets of songs into techno tracks; dance remixes, so-to-speak.

Now, here is my dilemna. The RS7000 seems to be everything I want...except I do not want to use canned synth sounds. Drum samples are fine, but I want to make my own synth tones. For this reason, I feel the RS7000 is out, though the drums on it are very useable. I was looking at the Quasimidi Rave-o-lution because of it's good sampled drums and legit VA synth engine...but it has no sampler. I also have the JP as a tone source as well, which I plan on using. So my question is, besides the EMX, is there a groovebox with a legit synth engine and good sampled drums all in one box besides the Rave-o-lution? And if not, are the sounds on the rs7000 at all editable?



As for the song sampling...I was questioning an MPC for the first time ever, but I don't know if it'll do what I am trying to make it do. I want the sampled chunks of songs to fit to the bpm of the techno track being played by whatever hardware I am using without making the pitch change on of the sampled song (i.e. If i use a song that has an original bpm of 120 and I make a techno track that goes at 150, I don't want the vocals on the original song to sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks). I know the rs7000 can do this, can the MPC? Is there anything more tailored for this kind of performance out there besides an MPC?


Lastly, for space saving-sakes, I was considering trading the JP8000 for an 8080, but the big thing for me is the RPS sequencer. On the 8080, is there some way to punch in notes on it and then trigger them, or do you need a midi controller to trigger/punch in the notes for the RPS? This is a clutch feature as to whether I trade or not.


Sorry this was so long, any responses would be appreciated. Welcome back, VSE.

[Yoozer]

So my question is, besides the EMX, is there a groovebox with a legit synth engine and good sampled drums all in one box besides the Rave-o-lution?

Roland MC-909?

And if not, are the sounds on the rs7000 at all editable?

I think they only have a single multisample as opposed to the regular 1-up-to-4 stacked on top of eachother, which does limit the editability. That said, resampling and filtering goes a long way.

I want the sampled chunks of songs to fit to the bpm of the techno track being played by whatever hardware [...] Is there anything more tailored for this kind of performance out there besides an MPC?

Yeah, a laptop with Ableton Live. I know you said hardware, but the number of hardware samplers that do this properly is limited. Even on an MPC they usually cheat by chopping the loop in 8 parts and then playing these in succession. But consider it like this; in that case you're only using the laptop as a stretching sampler

do you need a midi controller to trigger/punch in the notes for the RPS?

I think so; the internal "keyboard" (an insult to call it even that, just the preset selection knobs re-used) is for auditioning. The 8080 has 2 MIDI inputs, though; one of 'm won't do anything with the RPS.

I think you shouldn't try to cram too many devices in one; eventually you'll end up with something horribly expensive or a computer .

[AudiosEnvy]

Get an Mv8000. That way you will introduce some sampling into your world PLUS you get the best hardware sequencer ever.

[sacredcow]

Ableton Live would be your cheapest and by far most practical option. Yell at me all you want for suggesting software, but it's the plain and simple truth.
You'll have a very, very hard time finding a machine that has sophisticated, performance-oriented sampling and a legit VA engine(jv-based engines are not VA). The only exception is the roland sp-808 (which supposedly bears a jp-based VA engine), but its sample storage system is all rather dated (scsi, zip drives, long loading times, ..etc), so it's not exactly contemporary to the mpcs et al. of today. I would look into it, however, as it does, technically fit the bill.
If I were you, though, I'd divide the two and pick up an ESX-1 and (insert cheap va that fills whatever gap you want here). Do you want anything specific out of your next VA or do you just need more firepower?

[synapsecollapse]

the internal sounds on the rs are very editable. i think my edits are always saved as a part of the sequence/song

you can not set more than 1 sample to midi channel though, so multisampes are not possible on the same track.

i love mine. its deep and really also cheap compared to a MV8000 or MPC2000. if i were looking for one i might suggest one with the multiple out kit installed, as they are a bit expensive and hard to find solo.

[Spaceheater184]

I do have a shiny macbook that sits and does very little besides taking on recording purposes...I suppose I could calibrate it to do ableton stuff...I'd need a midi interface for ableton into my hardware though. I do have a lexicon lambda which has midi capabilities. The Mc-909 really has a VA engine? I thought it was just canned samples like the rest of the MC's. I heard the 909 has problems with a buggy OS as it is. Is that true?

[JUGEL]

Trust me spaceheater.... Grooveboxes and dance oddly don't go together ,... I've never found them suitable for proper dance music.

except one...

MPC MPC MPC MPC MPC MPC MPC ... the answer was in front of my face for about 10 years ... I was a f**k idiot.

[sacredcow]

I do have a shiny macbook that sits and does very little besides taking on recording purposes...I suppose I could calibrate it to do ableton stuff...I'd need a midi interface for ableton into my hardware though. I do have a lexicon lambda which has midi capabilities. The Mc-909 really has a VA engine? I thought it was just canned samples like the rest of the MC's. I heard the 909 has problems with a buggy OS as it is. Is that true?

ROM waveforms

The end.

[megawatt]

I had your exact question in my mind a few months ago and the sampler with the crux for me.

I've owned a EMX for years and sold it for a MC 909 - both are cool.

For live use I'd look at the MC 808 as it's better suited for your needs with it's motorized faders which helps with value jumping. If sample streching mixed with synths and drums are what you need check it out. I don't like to use computers while writing which is why I went with the MC909.

I was hesitant at first as I hadn't touched a newer Roland product in years but then got back into them though the V-synth XT which has a huge sound. The MC909's new OS addressed many issues. THe mc808 gets closer.

I find the sounds on the MC909 to be inspiring and usefull once tweaked despite the ROM nature. It's dead easy to use. I love real analog and more complex synths too but find that the Roland tones sit in the mix well with the bad boys too at the end of the day.

If you don't need a groove-box I'd recomend the V-synth xt as sampler/synth as well that will respond to any tempo you throw at it. It has a massive sound and is a compact tool but would need to be slaved to your other gear.

Give the Roland sounds a chance and let your ears be the judge once they are mixed in with your other class A gear.

The MPC line is great as well though I use mine mostly as a midi-manager/ midi-clock - I've never been happy with the build quality on my instrument. I can't wait to swap it out for the Boomchick when that arrives as the OG Roger Linn takes the helm as masterclock and lays the boom-bap. Who knows what the sampling specs are going to be like though. It's not going to be a MPC.

[23]

Philosophies can differ.
At this point in time I went a drumming route that I've seen few other (live) techno artists elect to take, and that is to say rather than worrying about sampling this or that drum machine, or having a drum machine that had "X" sounds right out the box, I took just creating my own drum timbres from the ground up for the most part.
I didn't stick to VA or anything like that, but I did tend to gravitate towards synth engines that gave me a wide amount of flexibility. The XV engine would surely fall into this bracket (trust me, that synth architecture is pretty darn deep).

In regard to sampling bits, I personally pretty much took to a combination of Ableton Live and Reason (NNXTs and ReDrums); however, personally, I tend to include this aspect as part of my setup only rarely.

I think the 909 would do you well giving it's simple sampling ability (in regard to both phrase and one shot deals) coupled with it's deep synth architecture. If VA action is a must for you however, you really might want to take a look at the Spectralis.

My setups for techno sorta shift according to what kind of mood I happen to be in really. But I suppose the heart of the setup pretty much always contains the following:
FutureRetro 777 (sometimes 2)
Roland MC-505
Roland MC-09 (sometimes 2)
Novation Supernova II (half of it's timbrality dedicated to percussion timbres)
two EMU P2500s (One dedicated to percussive timbres, the other non percussive timbres).

Anyhow though, the results of the working can be checked out at my A23P myspace page (specifically the live p.a.'s)
what I'd note, is if that kind of sound is what's up your alley, seriously, in my view, I've come to put little weight behind what people say makes up the acid sound or whats good and/or not good for doing techno.

My angle simply became one of looking at things first from a technical stand point. Yep.....simple deal of how architectures were on paper and what that in theory meant I'd be able to squeeze out of those architectures. The next step then came in pretty much executing the theory. More often than not (almost 100% of the time), that approach has not led me astray and I've been able to establish the timbres that I initially only held in theory without issue.

[Spaceheater184]

I just cannot bring myself to buy an MPC. I got sick to death of hearing that EVERYONE uses one. I'd seriously rather use my laptop/ableton and then like a Rave-o-lution for drums and then my JP-8000 sequenced for leads. How do laptop DJ's connect a mixer/effects processor to their laptops to fade in/fade out tracks and put filtering on the sounds or the global setting? I've seen guys just use a laptop and effects board and a mixer for each channel. I have no idea how they interface all of it, however. I suppose this is why we make music though; to explore. I know NOTHING about this avenue of electronic music and am very interested.

[23]

I just cannot bring myself to buy an MPC. I got sick to death of hearing that EVERYONE uses one. I'd seriously rather use my laptop/ableton and then like a Rave-o-lution for drums and then my JP-8000 sequenced for leads. How do laptop DJ's connect a mixer/effects processor to their laptops to fade in/fade out tracks and put filtering on the sounds or the global setting? I've seen guys just use a laptop and effects board and a mixer for each channel. I have no idea how they interface all of it, however. I suppose this is why we make music though; to explore. I know NOTHING about this avenue of electronic music and am very interested.

I'm heading to bed right now, but if someone else hasn't hit up an answer for you on this before I come back, I'll throw out some ideas.

In short, I'd say a BIG part of it boils down to what audio interface is being used in conjuction with the computer. Lot of what can be ran into the computer, what can be ran out of the computer and how it can be ran out of the computer is really all going to end up revolving around that.
It's a bit pricey, but it's a damn solid piece....might want to look into the MOTU 828

[Spaceheater184]

I see how that works. That MOTU looks a little pricey for me though...

[synapsecollapse]

I see how that works. That MOTU looks a little pricey for me though...

you can look at the 828mkii used (i got mine for $500, but they have sold as low as 355 in the past month as ebay) or the OG 828 for even less!

[domestic]

ello

I own MC-909 and it is really usefull, you can tweak nice sounds, it has ROM waveforms which act almost exactly like real synths, but I am not satisfied with kicks (I am also techno fan)... it has built-in sampler so you can capture/upload via usb/use your own samples (16 MB internal memory), if you need more, you can use SmartMedia card.. if you buy any of Roland MCs, then you should go for MC-808 which is cheaper and same powerfull as 909.. I am also thinking about Yamaha RS7000 and Korg EMX/ESX, if someone experienced this units pleas compare them.

good luck