Behringer BCR2000 question

zmd · Post by **zmd** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:40 am

has anyone used this thing on hardware synths? i want to get one to use with my poly 800 and even my fb01 if it'll do it...any advice?

logicalhippo · Post by **logicalhippo** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:41 am

I have used this on hardware synths - it's AWESOME.

Unfortunately since these midi controllers just got really inexpensive, I know of no database where you can easily find if your synth of choice is compatible :'(. Best choice for now would be google.

Basically what you need is a midi implementation that provides ways of changing individual voice parameters from Midi. Usually when someone says a synth has "good midi implementation" this is what they mean - but not always! It can be really hard to find the midi spec for old synths - I still have yet to find the full spec for some of my synths. A good bet would be to check google for a directory site, and then use the wayback machine.

Most synths have sysex strings for each parameter - the easiest way to do this on the BCR is to use the "learn" feature - otherwise it's REALLY a pain. So you better hope the synth transmits sysex parameter changes!

Some simple soft synths (reFX vanguard) use CCs for each parameter - I think this is awesome and I wish more did it.

NRPNs are also common (alesis micron/ion).

If people are interested, I might be up to hosting a small database of MIDI properties of vintage synths, although I wouldn't be able to get it up until January - I could even host BCR presets! Is this something people would use? Does something like this exist that I am ignorant of?

Post by **prinsen** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:49 am

logicalhippo wrote:If people are interested, I might be up to hosting a small database of MIDI properties of vintage synths, although I wouldn't be able to get it up until January - I could even host BCR presets! Is this something people would use?

I'd consider getting a BCR if such a db existed.
So, yes.

Johnny Lenin · Post by **Johnny Lenin** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:52 am

logicalhippo wrote:Is this something people would use?

Another yes here.

insky · Post by **insky** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:49 am

Sounds good!

But like I stated in Johnny Lenin's other thread, this will not work on the Poly 800 because it doesn't allow real-time control via SysEx.

Check the specs of your synth to find out if it you can change parameters in real time via SysEx, or CC#'s, or NRPN's.

To make it easier here's some synths I know will not work with this.

ESQ-1: No realtime control but does allow SysEx dumps.

JX-10: Same as the ESQ-1, but there is a mod to change that.

Poly-800: no SysEx at all. The EX-800 only allows SysEx dumps of patches.

That's all I can think of right now.

Dirk · Post by **Dirk** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:10 am

The poly800MK1 does not even respond to CC messages.

insky · Post by **insky** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:17 am

Regulated CC messages didn't start showing up as a standard until the mid 90's. Meaning you couldn't change parameters with just a bunch of CC#'s, e.g one CC for the filter, another for the resonance and so on.

pricklyrobot · Post by **pricklyrobot** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:37 am

I was thinking of getting one of these at some point to go with my Casio CZ-1000. I haven't really looking into it too deeply yet. Anyone know if it will or won't work with the CZ's?

Arddhu · Post by **Arddhu** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:28 am

Well I know it responds to sysex data from the computer but I don't think it'd be possible to do filter sweeps and all that swanky jazz. As it retriggers or needs to be retriggered each you time you make a change.

Could allways give it a bash anyhoo.

Post by **meatballfulton** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:06 pm

The BCR2000 is somewhat crippled with respect to sysex. It can record simple sysex strings and play them back, but you can't edit the strings at all, not even in the editor software.

As far as the Yamaha FB01 it has limited CC support, common for the mid 80s. It only supports the following controllers: 1 (mod wheel), 2 (breath) and 4 (foot pedal) all mapped to pitch mod depth (vibrato), 7 (volume), 10 (pan), 64 (portamento time), 65 (sustain), 66 (sostenuto...probably maps to sustain?). Not too much to play with there!

insky wrote:ESQ-1: No realtime control but does allow SysEx dumps.

Actually it responds to controllers 1 and 4 which can be mapped to any of the modulation destinations in the machine, you can also globally assign one external CC (Ensoniq calls it XCTRL) which can be mapped to any destination. Controllers 7 and 10 are supported for volume and pan and 65 for sustain. The ESQ-1 also responds to mono and poly aftertouch (which the BCR2000 can send from a knob) you can map those to any destination as well but they are only active while a note is sustained.

teknosmoker · Post by **teknosmoker** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:07 am

I ordered a Studio Electronics ATC-Xi and bought a BCR2000 to make programming/controlling more enjoyable. In the meantime, I tried it out on both hardware synth and soft-synths - works very well. BCR is dead easy to program and seems to be built remarkably well for a piece of Behringer gear. Daft Punk uses them in their live shows (not sure what they are controlling though).

Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for the ATC-Xi to arrive....

insky · Post by **insky** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:34 am

meatballfulton wrote: Actually it responds to controllers 1 and 4 which can be mapped to any of the modulation destinations in the machine, you can also globally assign one external CC (Ensoniq calls it XCTRL) which can be mapped to any destination. Controllers 7 and 10 are supported for volume and pan and 65 for sustain. The ESQ-1 also responds to mono and poly aftertouch (which the BCR2000 can send from a knob) you can map those to any destination as well but they are only active while a note is sustained.

Yeah but pretty much all synths respond to CC#s 1 and 4, because 1 and four are the Mod wheel and pedal. However most synths don't allow you to assign these to any parameter like the ESQ-1. However using the BCR to control the mod wheel and pedal is pretty redundant. Being able to use the freely selectable single CC# is a plus and adds more control, but it's still only one CC#. So if we use the aftertouch as a knob on the BCR2000 that still gives us only 4 knobs to work with. And those only work as performance controllers. So if you wanted to use them to create patches you're screwed. But four freely assignable knobs are more than alot of synths from this era.

When I said no realtime controls I meant where you could control all the parameters and edit patches...I guess I should have rephrased that.

Huppo · Post by **Huppo** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:43 pm

pricklyrobot wrote:I was thinking of getting one of these at some point to go with my Casio CZ-1000. I haven't really looking into it too deeply yet. Anyone know if it will or won't work with the CZ's?

It won't work. The CZ series doesn't respond in real time to tweaks from external controllers, either. Even if you use a software editor that "speaks" to the CZ series, you have to re-up the patch you're tweaking to the synth to hear any changes you've made.

Arddhu · Post by **Arddhu** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 5:58 pm

A more concise and coherent way of saying what I was trying to say before.

Huppo · Post by **Huppo** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:19 pm

Arddhu wrote:A more concise and coherent way of saying what I was trying to say before.

Me, coherent?

damn..I gotta do something about that. Barkeep! another cold one over here, please....

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