PPG Wave 2.2 or 2.3? Is 2.2 c**p/redundant compared to 2.3?

Bitexion · Post by **Bitexion** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:43 pm

I'm looking at a very tempting auction of a PPG Wave 2.2 w/MIDI.
But I'm wondering if there are massive differences from the 2.2 to 2.3 soundwise..would I be "gimping myself" if I bought the 2.2? I've become greatly interested in the PPG synths but never tried a hardware one.

I have both manuals as PDF, the 2.3 manual mentions there are major differences in the operation of the synths, but I can't find out what. It is mostly geared towards experienced 2.2 users to see the differences.

The interface looks cool in a "80's-hacker-movie"-style with keypad and lots of quirky menus.

waveterm · Post by **waveterm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:28 pm

Hi !

There isn´t a major difference in sound between the 2.2 and the 2.3.

The big differences are :

The 2.3 has Midi as standard. Some 2.2 has been upgraded with factory Midi, some 2.2´s with factory Midi and separate outputs.

The 2.3 is multitimbral, the 2.2 is not.

Some 2.2´s was upgraded to 2.3´s.

If you plan on getting a Waveterm there are 2 versions. The Waveterm A and the Waveterm B.

Both versions comes with 8 or 5 1/4" drives. Most Waveterm B´s with 8" drives are upgraded A´s. But there are actual B´s that came with 8" drives too.

Some Waveterm A´s where upgraded to B status.

The 2.2 works best with the Waveterm A, not so good with the B. It is not possible to load samples into a 2.2 with the B.

Waveterm B´s can be booted into A-mode, thus making it possible to work with a 2.2. Provided that you get the Reformat disk.

The 2.3 has Combiprograms which is the way it stores sets of eight programs and keyboardmappings. The 2.2 doesn´t have this as it is not multitimbral.

The separate outputs is per voice, not per sound in a Combiprogram. Thus they are monophonic outputs.

PPG´s are usually stable if you do some preventive maintnance.

- Rebuild Powersupply
- Renovate keyboard
- Clean all card edgeconnectors.

Some parts are virtually impossible to find but hey, this is vintage gear so it comes with the game.

The EVU is basically a rackmount 2.3. It cannot be edited other than via a 2.3 or a Sys-ex editor.

Some( most ? ) EVU´s has Midi, some don´t.

The PRK is a masterkeyboard for the System. It came with the option of built in samples that you could transfer to a Wave 2.2/2.3 or EVU. It does not produce any sound of its own.

The PRK FD can read Waveterm B disks and transfer the samples to a Wave 2.3/EVU, which is cool as you have a backup for your Waveterm B !

Hth

WT

edit : added some small parts....

Z · Post by Z » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:50 pm

WT, that's great info - thanks!

Sonically, are the 2.2 and 2.3 the same? I have never heard any PPG stuff in person, but always loved the sounds I've heard from TD, DM, O'Hearn & Rush. I picked up at dead 2.3 last summer which I hope to have back from the tech soon.

I'm not big into sampling, so are there any advantages to getting a Waveterm besides adding samples to a Wave? Will a WT A work with a 2.3?

A bit of info for Bixeton (if you don't already know), www.virtual-music.at has some PPG parts and can upgrade the OS - which I had done to mine.

Thanks,
Z

Bitexion · Post by **Bitexion** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:03 pm

Thanks for the long answer.

Do you like programming your own stuff on it WT?
I'm just worried the interface will work more against me than with me.
I'm not afraid of digital interfaces (h**l, I've broken through the DX7 mystique) but all those 2 letter abbreviations might be a bit confusing.
Is it easy to achieve things like modulating the wavetable with the pitchwheel? I've heard some of the waveforms in the wavetable are very awkwardly placed, like those old analogue saw/square/sine waves suddenly break the flow when you modulate, so you have to go hit'n'miss with mod level so it doesn't tip over the boundary and get nasty glitches.

I've read and heard the sounds in the bluesynths review. Love it.

waveterm · Post by **waveterm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:13 pm

Hi Z !

The Waveterm makes it possible to construct new waveforms through additive synthesis.

When you´ve made a bunch of different waveforms you can string them together in a new wavetable.

You can assign a different waveform at each end of the wavetable and let the Waveterm calculate and fill in the differing waveforms between the ends.

You can perform FFT on a sample and break the sample into individual waveforms of a wavetable ! That´s pretty cool if you control the wavetable with an envelope or the LFO. Lets just say that the sound of sampleplayback is very hacked up and grainy with this method.

Playing back regular samples transferred from the Waveterm sounds fine ( well, it is 8 or 12 bit so YMMV ).

Factory samples are 16-bit but playback is 12 ( on the 2.3 ).

The Waveterm A will work fine with the 2.3.

The Waveterm has a pretty cool sequencer ( stems back from the original Wavecomputer 340/380 Event Generator. Oh, it is actually called the Event Generator in the Waveterm ).

Usual problems with the Waveterms are :

- Power Suppy. Rebuild it. Hard as h**l to dismantle the chassi to get at the Power Supply

- Discdrives. If misaligned you´re in trouble. Dirty drives are not uncommon.

- Badly trimmed computermonitor. Let an oldschool TV-technician/repairman/woman ( sounds Monty Pythonish doesn´t it ? ) have a look at it. There are deadly voltages inside !!!!!

Have fun with your 2.3 when it is repaired !!

WT

Z · Post by Z » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:31 pm

waveterm wrote: TV-technician/repairman(women) ( sounds Monty Pythonish doesn´t it ? )

"Just another day for 'Bicycle Repairman'!"

Yeah, I can't wait to get the 2.3 back. Alex @ Virtual Music got my voice & processor boards fixed, but the connectors to the main board need replacing. Fortunately, Alex was able to locate the connectors and should arrive at my tech in Dallas soon.

I'll have to look into a Waveterm later on. I appreciate the info - that does show more capabilities than just sampling.

Thanks,
Z

waveterm · Post by **waveterm** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:33 pm

Bitexion wrote:Thanks for the long answer.

You asked for it, you got it !

Bitexion wrote: Do you like programming your own stuff on it WT?

Hehe......

Bitexion wrote: I'm just worried the interface will work more against me than with me.
I'm not afraid of digital interfaces (h**l, I've broken through the DX7 mystique) but all those 2 letter abbreviations might be a bit confusing.

If you can handle the DX-7, the PPG Wave will not be a problem.

Bitexion wrote: Is it easy to achieve things like modulating the wavetable with the pitchwheel?

Yes.

Bitexion wrote:I've heard some of the waveforms in the wavetable are very awkwardly placed, like those old analogue saw/square/sine waves suddenly break the flow when you modulate, so you have to go hit'n'miss with mod level so it doesn't tip over the boundary and get nasty glitches.

This is true. The wavetables have the classic waveforms in the last 4 slots so overmodulating will cause the glitches. Not really a problem....

The mod level is programmable.

Bitexion wrote: I've read and heard the sounds in the bluesynths review. Love it.

You´ll love it if get it. Trust me...it sits so good in mixes.

Maybe I´m biased, I´ve hade Waves for over 20 years. Bought my first one as a 16 year old....

Íf you´re ever in the land to the east, around the polar circle, let me know. I´ll give you a tour of the system ( and other stuff ).

WT

crystalmsc · Post by **crystalmsc** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:08 am

great explanations Waveterm, thanks. that makes things clear.

minime123 · Post by **minime123** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:47 pm

can a 2.2 thats got midi be upgraded to a 2.3?

Bitexion · Post by **Bitexion** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:16 pm

It involves more than just a software upgrade I think..the 2.3 has a motorola 68000 CPU inside, whereas 2.2 has another type of slower CPU.

But WT mentioned some 2.2 was upgraded to 2.3 hmm. And you can switch the 2.3 into 2.2 mode because it has both CPUs inside. Sort of like you could switch the Commodore 128 back to a C64 on powerup.

waveterm · Post by **waveterm** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:54 pm

In general.....no you cannot upgrade a 2.2 to a 2.3.

This is because you need to exchange the voicecards and the Prozessorcard. I/O card and motherboard I´m not sure about those.

So, if you have the upgradecards, yes you can.

WT

minime123 · Post by **minime123** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:08 pm

thanks guys. is there anyone who still has these upgrade cards?
im guessing a 2.2 with midi is worth less than a 2.3 then, huh?
mini

waveterm · Post by **waveterm** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:22 pm

I would say the 2.2 is only slightly less valued. There were less 2.2´s made then 2.3´s so from a vintage point of view, they are equal in value.

WT - who should go and do number two, but I guess this is more information then you needed....lol

calyx93 · Post by **calyx93** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:17 pm

FWIW - if I had to choose between my 2.2 or 2.3, it would be the 2.2. It just sounds better - crispier and hotter. I also don't like how the 2.3 gets a bit sluggish when sequencing with combis.

Bitexion - the programming is far easier than is written in reviews - much easier than the Microwave-1 for sure. It just takes a bit of memorisation to get fast - as for the Waveterms (WT did warn me) - what a headache.

Whichever model you choose, definitely get the v8.3 upgrade from Virtual Music - very nice

waveterm · Post by **waveterm** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:59 am

calyx93 wrote:FWIW - if I had to choose between my 2.2 or 2.3, it would be the 2.2. It just sounds better - crispier and hotter. I also don't like how the 2.3 gets a bit sluggish when sequencing with combis.

Yeah, that´s why you need several

calyx93 wrote: Bitexion - the programming is far easier than is written in reviews - much easier than the Microwave-1 for sure. It just takes a bit of memorisation to get fast - as for the Waveterms (WT did warn me) - what a headache.

True, it´s no picnic using the Waveterm on a productive scale. Everything is very slow.

calyx93 wrote: Whichever model you choose, definitely get the v8.3 upgrade from Virtual Music - very nice

+1

But, this requires a Wave with factory midi. So if you stumble onto a Wave 2.2 with midi from Kenton you´ll need to rip it out and replace it with a clone of the factory midi. This is because the Kenton Midi has a separate CPU and connects between the keyboard and I/O card of the Wave. Also there are wires going from the Kenton board to various places on the Wave boards.

WT