Hi to all! I'm new. Need synth advice- Casio AZ-1 related

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:23 am

Hi everyone! My name's Adam, I'm from Australia.

Ok, to be brief, I managed to acquire a Casio AZ-1 keytar off ebay, and.. ahem.. I soon realised that I may have been a bit in the dark about what synths would be MIDI compatible with it and stuff... ok I'm a MIDI noob. I confess, I bought the AZ-1 not only for it's ... awesomeness, but because I mistakenly thought that the portamento option on it I could use, which my synth that I have doesn't have. Not only that, I was saddened to find out that the pitch bender on my keytar would reset the pitch all wrong. I changed the pitch bender to go up/down a semitone on my synth, but to no avail. I emailed the seller about this, and he believes that all of this is compatibility issues.

So this is a long shot, but I'm wondering if there's anyone who would recommend to me (I'm guessing you would actually have to own one of these things to know) a synth or sound module... or even soft synth I suppose, to use in conjunction with a CASIO AZ-1 that would fit the following criteria:

* Is compatible with the AZ-1, so that the portamento button works, the pitch bender will reset to the correct pitch- perhaps even so that the portamento slide can be controlled??? Just list what works with it if at all possible

* Has a mono/ poly option

* Has fat bass sounds

* Has soaring leads

* Has warm ethereal pads

* Has piano/ organ/ string/ choir sounds (don't have to be super accurate)

* Is cheap. I think I'm gonna draw the line at.. US$500

* Is portable. I live on campus in a uni that takes me 3 hours to get back to home by public transport, and I would like it to be portable enough for that. So I'm talking small-ish here... synths with 3 octaves or less... I guess all sound modules would be portable enough, same for soft synths.

This for me also rules out any of the Casio CZ series, which I believe the AZ-1 was designed to be used with.. but if there is no other good alternative, just say.

Also I would personally prefer something with keys, but I'm open for all suggestions. I was wondering if the Micron or the Xiosynth would be good...

So yah. I think there's a user on this forum who has one of these with a cool lightening/ night sky paint job on his! If this is you, please give me some advice!

If you need to know any more info, just say.

I conclude by appealing for all owners of past-present of the Casio AZ-1, in the words of Salad Fingers,

"Heelllp!"
"Help me!"

Z · Post by Z » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:18 pm

You've just learned the hard way that MIDI contollers (keytars, reg. keyboard, percussion controllers, etc.) are mearly hardward interfaces to control the software within MIDI sound modules. You will need to set the pitch bend amount, porta time, etc., for each sound patch. Most sound patches are pre-set to have pitch bending up/down 2 semi tones. For leads, some people like +1 octave/-2 semi tones or vice versa.

Back you your question: I'm thinking a Roland JD-990 module might work well for you. It is more than just a 2 space rack mount version of their popular JD-800 keyboard synth. It features an expnsion slot on top of the unit to add any of the SR-JV80 expansions, but the Vintage Synth expansion has extra sound patches specifically for the JD-990. I see the JD-990's sell on eBay as low as $200 and and high as $400 with the Vintage Synth Expansion installed.

You can get you a 2 space rack case to enclose it in and protect it during your travels. You can probably find a used one on Craigslist from a guitarist that has grown his rack system.

Good luck!

Z

Post by **madtheory** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:26 pm

Before you spend more money-
1. What synth are you using?
2. The pitch bend: are you saying it does not "reset" to concert pitch when you use it, or are you have trouble setting the pitch bend interval on your synth?

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:06 am

Hey thanks for the responses!

As for the Qs

1: I'm using a Yamaha DJX. It's a beginner's keyboard really, although a very good one at that. It wouldn't really hurt me too much to get another synth because I've been wanting another one anyway... The DJX doesn't have a mono option or portamento and I really need something to bring to uni with me.

2: Yup, my DJX is at correct concert pitch. When I hook the AZ-1 up to the DJX, and use the pitch bend on the AZ-1, the pitch of both ges out of whack... which is remedied if I then toggle the pitch bender on the DJX. The pitch bender on the keytar would go up and down a semitone, so I set the pitch bender without any trouble on the DJX to go up and down a semitone too. The pitch still went out when I used the pitch bender on the AZ-1

Can you please explain to me what you mean by sound patch? Are you referring to a preset.. or um.. banked sound.. for want of better wording.. on a synth?

Thanks again guys, I'm slowly learning!

Z · Post by Z » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:21 am

If the sound generator (your Yamaha synth, etc) does not have a mono mode or portamento, a controller will not be able to add them. Think of your Yamaha keyboard as 2 parts: keyboard controller and sound generator.

It sounds like the pitch bender on the AZ-1 is not resetting correctly. If you have access to another MIDI keyboard, you can try hooking it up to your Yamaha and seeing if the bender is working correctly. Then try the AZ-1 on the other keyboard.

By sound patch, I mean a preset or banked sound as you called it. There's various terminology, but I still call them "patches". The term patch originated back in the days of modular synths where the different componets that made up a single sound were "patched" with 1/4" cables like early telephone switchboards.

Good luck,
Z

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:44 am

Thanks!

Indeed, well I know this now though because I emailed ther seller a few weeks ago about what I was doing wrong, and learned that the portamento functions on my AZ-1 wouldn't work because my keyboard didn't have portamento

But not only that, he also thought that the problems I was having with the pitch bender stemmed from poor compatibility. This is why I'm asking for any synths etc that the pitch bender on the AZ-1 is compatible with...

Of course, I don't actually know if this is true, and the seller could be wrong, or full of sh*t, and I have a faulty pitch bender

Don't know how I can borrow a MIDI keyboard controller at the moment to test it

I don't know anyone who has one. Maybe I'll have to take my keyboard up to uni...

Thanks for clearing the sound patch teminology up for me! And I'll add the JD-990 to my list of suggestions 8)

Anyone else with any suggestions/ thoughts?
Is there anyone who has actually owned one of these things?

Thanks again for all 8)

Z · Post by Z » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:09 am

Sorry, I've never owned an AZ-1, but I do own the JD-990 if you need more info about the Roland.

Funny, last week I was having a discussion with a buddy of mine about the insane prices of keytars. I've alway wanted an AZ-1 ever since I saw Thomas Dolby's custom painted black one. I have never messed with any keytar contollers except for the the Roland AX-1 when I worked at a local music shop in '92 I wasn't too impressed with it since it looked like it was mainly designed to work with the General MIDI gear that Roland was producing at that time.

I will admit to using my red SH-101 in keytar mode both in studio and a cheesy music video made back in '94.

Z

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:29 am

Ok! Well today I was having thoughts of getting the JD-990 anyway, and in the case that the pitch bender on the AZ-1 wouldn't work, perhaps replacing my AZ-1 with a Roland AX-1 or AX-7 which I thought WOULD be compatible with it.. being Roland products and all that

Have you ever tried the AX-1 with the JD-990 in your experience?

How's the JD-990 for square-fuzz-EVH-Jump-style patches? 8)

Also, do you know where I can find some good clips of the JD-990 or alternatively the JD-800? I found some of the JD-800, but they all seem to be demostrating some of the pads and nothing else. Great pads however 8)

Perhaps I should try advertising for any keyboardists with AZ-1s in the help section to come see this thread... or would that be unallowed to run a seperate thread to get people to see this one

Z · Post by Z » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:51 pm

Sorry, the JD-990 was not released at the time I worked at the music shop in '92, so I was only able to try the AX-1 with current gear at that time. I might have tried it with the JD-800, since that was an instrument I lusted for since it came out (finally got my 1st one in '94).

The JD series is best known for their super pads, but like any progammable synth, can generate just about anything you can imagine within the synth's boundries. For the EVH Jump sound, you can take 2 tones (JD speak for oscillator) set to sawtooth (slightly detuned) and set the filter (TVF) and amp (TVA) accordingly. The Vintage Synth expansion will add samples of classic synths to your arsenal of waveforms.

Programming the 990 is not too difficult since it has a large graphic display. I program my 990 via my JD-800's sliders.

There is a Real Audio demo ofthe JD-990 here on VSE. Another page with sound samples and other useful info is:
http://homepage.mac.com/synth_seal/html/jd990.html

Good luck!
Z

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:06 am

Hey sweet thanks 8) I'll give it a listen probably tomorrow when I find some time 8)

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:33 am

UPDATE ('scuse the double post):

Brought the AZ-1 back home with me today to test with my Yamaha DJX again...

before I set the keytar to recieve patches from the DJX it was set on the 1st GM preset piano patch... and the AZ-1 was pretty much an entire semitone sharp. The DJX which wasn't on a GM voice was in tune. I hadn't even used the pitch bender....

This leads me to believe that the pitch bender is working fine, but the fooking keytar's out of tune itself... I never tested the pitch bender with GM voices!

Clues anyone? Is this bad- should I be sh8tting my pants right about now?

EDIT: btw, if anyone wants to see if they can make jack all of this, I actually found a link on the net with a PDF of the entire Casio AZ-1 manual. It's baffling me a bit

http://www.jz-server.de/casiology/__EN/ ... MANUAL.pdf

Have fun!

Post by **madtheory** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:21 am

You mean the AZ-1 is sending MIDI notes that are a semitone up? It can't be out of tune since it doesn't generate sounds, only MIDI messages. If you could analyse what it was trasnmitting that would help, but it appears to me to be a fault with the pitch bender. It might have become unstuck in transit and is jammed in the "+1ish" region. Should be an easy fix for any tech.

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:55 am

No, you're right, it is the pitch bender. Tried it with my Yamaha DJX again... it was only about a semitone sharp when the pitch bender on the DJX was set to bend up or down a whole tone. When I set the picth bender on the DJX to go up and down a semitone like on the AZ-1, the pitch on the AZ-1 drops a little bit. As it stands, with pitch benders bending up and down a semitone on both keyboards, the AZ-1 seems to be a quarter-semitone sharp

At this point you'd probably tell me to man up and live with it, but I've got a rather keen ear having played music- so out-of-tune instruments will bug me

Surely there's a way to fix this if it's only quarter of a semitone or so sharp...

As for the pitch bender being possibly being stuck, I don't see how really

on inspection the pitch bender actually looks like it's very slightly centered closer to bend DOWN as opposed to UP. The pitch bender on mine can also move both up and down a semitone no worries... if that's not what you meant by "being stuck in the +1-ish region" then I'm lost sorry

Has anyone ever had problems with iffy pitch benders on digital synths/controllers similar to this? Were they easy/cheap to fix?

Post by **madtheory** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:36 pm

AdamGBB wrote:When I set the picth bender on the DJX to go up and down a semitone like on the AZ-1, the pitch on the AZ-1 drops a little bit.

Look, you're describing it in a very confusing manner. I don't understand what you're saying here. Please, think of it this way: the AZ-1 has no pitch. What it does is tell the DJX what pitch to play.

AdamGBB wrote:the AZ-1 seems to be a quarter-semitone sharp At this point you'd probably tell me to man up and live with it, but I've got a rather keen ear having played music- so out-of-tune instruments will bug me

Why would you predict that someone here would advise you to live with tuning a quarter tone sharp? That's a LOT out of tune.

AdamGBB wrote:As for the pitch bender being possibly being stuck, I don't see how really

If it's not something you feel comfortable fixing, give it to a tech. As I said, it's unlikely to be an expensive job.

AdamGBB · Post by **AdamGBB** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:23 am

Ok, sorry, I'm new to this stuff

, bear with me for a moment, I'll try and explain what I was trying to say again...

When both the AZ-1 and the DJX are immediately turned on, the AZ-1's pitch bender is set (seemingly permanently, I don't know if I can change the pitch bend range or not) to bend up/ down a semitone. The DJX on the other hand is set to bend up/down a tone.

With the AZ-1 bending up/ down a semitone and the DJX up/ down a tone, before I set the DJX to be controlled through a MIDI channel, so the AZ-1 is on a GM voice, the AZ-1 appears to be playing notes almost a whole semitone sharp.

Also if I set the DJX to be controlled by the AZ-1 through a MIDI channel, when I toggle the pitch bender on the AZ-1, the tuning goes almost a semitone sharp.

HOWEVER: when I set the ptch bender range of the DJX to go up/down a semitone to match that of the AZ-1, the pitch on the AZ-1 (before being set to control the DJX- and AFTER when it has been set to control the DJX when I have toggled the AZ-1's pitch bender) becomes only a quarter-semitone sharp or so AS OPPOSED to almost a WHOLE semitone sharp.

but still a quarter-semitone sharp...

so that's what I meant when I said the pitch drops a little bit... ahem.. drops from almost a whole semitone sharp to just a quarter-semitone sharp or so.

And yeah..

that's the best way I can explain it...
Whether or not the AZ-1 has it's own pitch, that's what the pitch bender's doing...

I guess I should try and find a tech, but I really don't want to spend too much more on this thing... and I don't even know what's wrong with the bloody pitch bender

it seems to bend up and down a semitone quite happily from WHATEVER bloody pitch it's on at the time, but seems to make the pitch of AZ-1 and the DJX (and assumingly any synth it's connected to) go sharp