On the right track?

[Saubrey]

Hello everyone,
First time post here and I tried to read the stickies so as not to be a pain. I'm not looking for a "you should buy this setup" type of answer necessarily, more a "stop now before you do something stupid".

I'm starting to piece together a home studio (probably PC based) and wanted to start off with a synth. I have very little room right now before my wife and I buy a house and don't want to spend a lot on a synth right now. I've never owned one before, but am interested in learning how to program. I don't perform live and it would be for my own entertainment. I play everything from jazz to classical to prog rock and some electronic.

I've been thinking of buying an Alesis Micron. I spent ~2hrs playing one in the store and really liked it, but no one in the store really knew anything about it (I actually knew more than the salesmen due to my research beforehand).

I'm thinking that I can get a good handle on programming with the Micron and then use it to control softsynths as well. One of my issues is that if I use it as a midi controller I will have very few knobs to assign and will have to do most of my tweaks on the computer. I've been thinking that it would be nice if I could find a box to run beside it that is solely knobs to control parameters, but have not been able to find anything like that.

Also, if I buy a program like Reason or Ableton, would I be able to use either as my main recording program (e.g. more than just synth recording) or should I also buy something like Sonar or Pro Tools?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a leech and I hope to be able to contribute more to the forum when I get initiated into the synth world rather than just asking for advice.

Thanks!
Saubrey

P.S. One more thing. Is it worth buying this Synth Cookbook I've seen advertised all over the place or are there better resources? And I am looking at the programming sticky you guys have been nice enough to post

[V301H]

Check out the recently discontinued Alesis Ion. It has the same synthesis architecture as the Micron with knob-laden front panel and 49-note keyboard.

[cornutt]

I've been thinking of buying an Alesis Micron. I spent ~2hrs playing one in the store and really liked it, but no one in the store really knew anything about it (I actually knew more than the salesmen due to my research beforehand).

It sounds like the Micron will be a good starting point for you. It's pretty versatile, and the price is right. If you decide later that you don't like it, you can probably sell it and get back most of what you paid for it.

I'm thinking that I can get a good handle on programming with the Micron and then use it to control softsynths as well. One of my issues is that if I use it as a midi controller I will have very few knobs to assign and will have to do most of my tweaks on the computer. I've been thinking that it would be nice if I could find a box to run beside it that is solely knobs to control parameters, but have not been able to find anything like that.

To name two less expensive ones, there's the Novation Remote Zero and the Evolution UC-33. There's also quite a lot of combination keyboard/knob units on the market, and some with drum pads too. However, to be honest, I recommend that you not start out with that. As distasteful as it may sound, learn your softsynths first using the mouse and the screen. Once you've got that mastered, you can then work on getting a knob box to work with them. The reason I say that is that setting up a knob box to work with the particular MIDI CC or sysex sequences of a particular soft synth can be a fair amount of work, and it'll just complicate your life if you are doing that and trying to learn your way around the soft synth at the same time.

Also, if I buy a program like Reason or Ableton, would I be able to use either as my main recording program (e.g. more than just synth recording) or should I also buy something like Sonar or Pro Tools?

Afraid I can't answer that one, as I've never used either Reason or Live.

[Saubrey]

Thanks cornutt! As bad as it sounds trying to control everything with a mouse, it is probably best for me in the long run to get familiar with the softsynths the way they were designed before I start trying to make them "easier". And thanks for the Novation/Evolution recommendations.

Saubrey

[Vxster]

Hello everyone,
First time post here and I tried to read the stickies so as not to be a pain. I'm not looking for a "you should buy this setup" type of answer necessarily, more a "stop now before you do something stupid".

I'm starting to piece together a home studio (probably PC based) and wanted to start off with a synth. I have very little room right now before my wife and I buy a house and don't want to spend a lot on a synth right now. I've never owned one before, but am interested in learning how to program. I don't perform live and it would be for my own entertainment. I play everything from jazz to classical to prog rock and some electronic.

I've been thinking of buying an Alesis Micron. I spent ~2hrs playing one in the store and really liked it, but no one in the store really knew anything about it (I actually knew more than the salesmen due to my research beforehand).

I'm thinking that I can get a good handle on programming with the Micron and then use it to control softsynths as well. One of my issues is that if I use it as a midi controller I will have very few knobs to assign and will have to do most of my tweaks on the computer. I've been thinking that it would be nice if I could find a box to run beside it that is solely knobs to control parameters, but have not been able to find anything like that.

Also, if I buy a program like Reason or Ableton, would I be able to use either as my main recording program (e.g. more than just synth recording) or should I also buy something like Sonar or Pro Tools?

Sorry, I don't mean to be a leech and I hope to be able to contribute more to the forum when I get initiated into the synth world rather than just asking for advice.

Thanks!
Saubrey

P.S. One more thing. Is it worth buying this Synth Cookbook I've seen advertised all over the place or are there better resources? And I am looking at the programming sticky you guys have been nice enough to post

Welcome to VSE.

[Big Gnome]

I'm a big fan of the Micron/Ion engine, but I would advise you to look into something with more hands-on control--a used Ion, Novation, Nord, etc. would be worth considering; menus can be a huge pain in the a*s if you don't know how everything fits together.
You'll be able to play softsynths from just about any modern keyboard, but my personal preference is to use a dedicated midi controller, as I can't be bothered to assign my physical synth's controls to the software's. But that's me.

Incidentally, Ableton is a full-fledged DAW which will allow you to record/mix/arrange audio and midi data. Logic is another such program that's well worth looking into. Reason is a standalone suite of synths and effects lashed together with a sequencer; it has no external audio capability, nor does it support third party plugins (although it can communicate with other programs via a protocol called Rewire), so I cannot recommend this for you (unless as an addendum to a real DAW).

[crufty]

Go as cheap as possible. Hint: Electribe MX + Micron is a great starter setup and can be had for little cost. Plan on ditching the micron later if you get 'serious' about your synths. If not, keep 'em under the sofa with some headphones and jamout with your clam out!

[Johnny Lenin]

It's also worth pointing out that, if you do decide to go with a hardware synth, you're going to need a USB-Audio or Firewire-Audio interface to record in your DAW. Good ones start at about $150. You can find pretty good 8-channel mixers with USB interfaces [like the Alesis Multimix 8 USB] at about the same price. Something you might want to consider if you ever increase your keyboard collection or want to record other instruments as well.

[crufty]

True. However, a 1/4" to 3.5mm cable plugged into the line in on the PC can suffice, for a while anyway.

Also, try picking up an issue of computer music etc. they have a lot of free stuff that is great for learning, and using!

[prinsen]

Go as cheap as possible. Hint: Electribe MX + Micron is a great starter setup and can be had for little cost.

We all agree that synths are not specific to genres but wouldn't suggesting the EMX to someone into "everything from jazz to classical to prog rock and some electronic" be taking that notion a bit too far?

[Stab Frenzy]

The Micron sounds great, but I can't imagine anything worse to learn synthesis with.

[Joey]

The Micron sounds great, but I can't imagine anything worse to learn synthesis with.

i vote the DX7 for the king of bad synths to learn to program on.

[Zamise]

I agree, micron would probably be a bad move for your scenario, you can program sounds on it like most other synths, but its a lot menu diving with not many controls to help a newb out with on it. Take a look at Novation X-Station instead perhaps.

[synapsecollapse]

Also, if I buy a program like Reason or Ableton, would I be able to use either as my main recording program (e.g. more than just synth recording) or should I also buy something like Sonar or Pro Tools?)

Reason and Ableton are very different software programs.

reason uses an integrated synthesizer/drum machine/ sampler/ effect/ sequencer environment, but will not let you use VST's or record external signals by itself. if you use it, you might find rewire to be your friend.

Ableton has the capability to work as a VST host, a rewire host, and a rewire slave. it comes with a series of effect plug in, a few virtual instruments, and you can buy of a version of the package that comes with more a few more virtual instruments. it can record audio (unlike reason), and is especially clever at using recorded audio in loop based composition.

so, to answer your question, you could use ableton as your main recording question in place of (and debatably better than) sonar or pro tools, but you would still need an audio interface (sound card) of some sort too.

[Saubrey]

Wow, thanks a lot everyone!

Big Gnome, Zamise: Thanks for the Novation suggestions. I'm definitely looking into the X-Station.

Stab Frenzy: Thanks for the learning advice. Although I think that I would have fun with the Micron, I would still really love to learn synth programming. I figured that if I took the time to learn it I could work my way through the Micron's menus, but it looks like there are better machines for me to learn on than the Micron if I am serious about really digging into synths.

Crufty, prinsen: I've looked at the EMX before and it looks like a very cool box, but as for now I think that it would be limited to a style that I don't have a lot of experience with as far as music creation is concerned. So, it might have to be a purchase later on down the road. But I have been really tempted to buy one in the past and try my hand at it.

synapsecollapse: Thanks, that answers a few questions I had about those programs. I was pretty sure that Reason would not fulfill all of my recording needs, but was unsure. As far as Ableton, I knew I could do recording with it and was going to download the demo, but I don't have a midi controller or mics (or time right now; finals week is coming up VERY soon ) to really mess with it and see all it had to offer.

Johnny Lenin: Thanks. I've actually been doing a bit of research into rebuilding my current computer to be solely a studio PC. Any suggestions with that would be greatly appreciated! I will probably stick with PC because that is what I know and it is so much easier to upgrade. The last thing I need right now is to get used to a new OS in addition to everything else.

Thanks again everyone!

Saubery