16-Step pattern sequencer / MIDI (Mobius, MFB, etc)

mute · Post by **mute** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:57 pm

I'm looking into getting a standalone sequencer for my midi gear.. cv/gate/din sync would be nice but i already have a box for that so not entirely needed.

I've looked at the Mobius and the Step64 and I'm really tempted to buy the Mobius 2nd had (they come up pretty regularly on ebay).. but I believe the Mobius is only Monophonic.. and I'm looking for something that can do at least 3-4 voices of poly.

My main concern here is MIDI sequencing and Poly. I'm also hoping for something where I can dial in (or record via midi in) a Note (instead of just Freq). The Step 64 meets all these wants, but I have some issues with it's interface and would rather find something more traditional looking anyways.

Any recommendations? I would buy the Mobius in a heartbeat if it was polyphonic..

This is for studio and live use so I would like something flexible enough to fit those ends. I've searched and searched but can't really find anything dedicated enough at resonable prices outside the step64 and mobius.

Z · Post by Z » Thu May 08, 2008 8:06 pm

Production of the Mobius has ceased. They did come up for sale on eBay quite a bit in the past, but I bet their prices will start to go up in the future.

Yes, the Modius is monophonic, but I beleive most step sequencers of the same variety are also monophonic. I have only been back into this elecronic music world for just over a year (been playing since late 80's, but took a break frm late 90's until last year), I don't think I have seen a step sequencer like the Mobius that is polyphonic. Most traditional MIDI sequencers have "step write" modes, which are polyphonic, but don't work on a 16 step pattern like the Mobius.

The Mobius and other step sequencers are designed for a repeating monophonic pattens such as bass lines and ostinatos.

Good luck,
Z

Syn303 · Post by **Syn303** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:11 pm

The Mobius has ceased production and there are no more left now. However the Elektron Monomachine can offer you 64 steps and 6-tracks of sequencing power and poly too (if you want to construct chords).

mute · Post by **mute** » Thu May 08, 2008 8:33 pm

yeah im aware of all that Z & that the Mobius is no longer in production (i've seen at least 3 go up on ebay in the past couple months and they aren't marked up too high).

anyways.. I'm thinking of possibly even going old school and use my midi/cv convertor (or get a new one if i have to) w/ something that has multiple tracks like a Korg sq-10. Doepfer MAQ16/3.. but that'd hit like $1000 after exchange rates so blah. Theres gotta be a midi only device similar to the maq16/3.

Its silly that no one outside a small selection of mini-companies have made modern midi sequencers in this light. Step sequencers rule and popularity of grooveboxes and external controllers like the monome prove their popularity. Like... give me a groovebox sequencer with poly and all the other features removed, keeping just the midi.. and i'd be happy. Anything too digital for editing or requiring page edits = not what I want.

The point is hands on pattern performing and mixing.. if i'm going to digitally edit or write out sequences I'll use the computer per usual and if its live, take along my laptop (which i want to stop doing..). Standalone midi sequencers like the Yamaha QYs are totally pointless to me because they're just as involved as software and their realtime control is lame.. plus theres no decent step light indicators on sequencers like that.

Looks like I might have to go with the Step 64 if nothing else turns up.

Guess I could probably force myself into making a custom ucaps Midibox.. but my free time is limited b/c of work.

Still looking for recommendations tho.. theres gotta be some more options out there that'll let me build up chords, old&new.

Z · Post by Z » Thu May 08, 2008 9:10 pm

Syn303 wrote:The Mobius has ceased production and there are no more left now. However the Elektron Monomachine can offer you 64 steps and 6-tracks of sequencing power and poly too (if you want to construct chords).

That's good to know. I'll be looking into a MonoMachine in the future. The 6 tracks are polyphonic and not just mono?

mute wrote:I'm thinking of possibly even going old school and use my midi/cv convertor (or get a new one if i have to) w/ something that has multiple tracks like a Korg sq-10. Doepfer MAQ16/3.. but that'd hit like $1000 after exchange rates so blah. Theres gotta be a midi only device similar to the maq16/3.

As far as I know, the MAQ 16/3 is 3 monophonic tracks which can be used for any "control voltage" including pitch, filter, etc. You could have a 3 note chord with each note on a seperate track. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

mute wrote:Its silly that no one outside a small selection of mini-companies have made modern midi sequencers in this light. Step sequencers rule and popularity of grooveboxes and external controllers like the monome prove their popularity. Like... give me a groovebox sequencer with poly and all the other features removed, keeping just the midi.. and i'd be happy. Anything too digital for editing or requiring page edits = not what I want.

As far as the "Big 3" are concerned, they want to keep cranking out their workstations which cover a broad market - especially the church market. When I worked at GC back in the early 90's, we didn't make any money off the starving musicians, it was the churches with their big bucks.

I'm in a similar boat myself. I finally got a Simmons SDSV and looking for a machine to trigger it with. Right now I'm using a 606, which has 2 trigger outs. Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread....

Z

Post by **killedaway** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:26 pm

Korg EMX-1? ignoring the inbuilt sounds, you can use the EMX as either 5 monophonic synths, or setup chords across the 5 parts, essentially making it a 5 voice poly sequencer. i do this sometimes to sequence pads or chords from my Ion. obviously, you could split it up too: have 1 part playing a bass patch, 1 part playing a lead, and send the 3 remaining parts to something playing chords, etc...

patterns can vary in length from 16 to 128 steps, and you can remap the drum parts as well, giving you an additional 9 notes of MIDI to send to a drum box or whatever.

the main downsides to this vs. a Mobius or other, is that the EMX lacks dedicated glide and velocity (per step) functions. on that front, if you use the internal synth engine, you can edit any knob motions individually, including portamento/glide, after the fact, so you can get pretty close to the type of sequencing offered by the Mobius/Revolution/303. unfortunately, these knob movements are sent as NRPN info (rather than typical MIDI CCs -- i think i'm saying that right..?), so these motion sequences won't translate to other gear, unless you had something between them converting the data.

if you're not a fan of the included sounds, just ignore them and think of it as an excellent 5 part (or voice) sequencer. it would do well in a live setting especially, as by using the song function, you can chain patterns together to suit your needs, or if you're going for something more spontaneous, you can use the pattern set function, which enables you to flick between pattern with just the push of a button (ie: up to 16 patterns all immediately accessible from the front panel, or up to 64 patterns with page swaps!).

all this and they're pretty cheap on the used market, too.

Post by **killedaway** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:33 pm

Z wrote: That's good to know. I'll be looking into a MonoMachine in the future. The 6 tracks are polyphonic and not just mono?

well, internally you can set the MM to either mono or poly mode. in mono mode, each track plays a separate synth machine and is obviously limited to a single note at a time. in poly, all 6 tracks combine and use the same internal synth machine, giving you 6 notes of polyphony.

if no one jumps in before i find it in the manual, i'll check and see if the same rules apply to the MIDI tracks.

UPDATE -- from the manual:

"Chords can be entered in the MIDI sequencer, but all notes of the chord need to be the same length. If you want to play true polyphonic notes you need to make use of several tracks and direct the output to the same MIDI channel."

aredj · Post by **aredj** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:35 pm

I've been using an MC-307 as my 'away from computer' sequencer.

I dont use the sounds in it hardly... just the sequencer for my virus and evolver...

8 channels, full midi (PC, aftertouch...) tr style or realtime recording...
And the RPS offers some interesting ways to play back stored patterns on the fly...

Fairly small and light... and I got it for about $200

I only wish I could punch in at any time to record on the fly...

Post by **killedaway** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:37 pm

aredj wrote:I only wish I could punch in at any time to record on the fly...

this is one my main complaints with mine. actually that, and Roland's insistence on complex and menu-diving heavy pattern editing. it was weeks before i got my head around my Fantom, and now i've completely forgotten it from disuse.

crufty · Post by **crufty** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:43 pm

i can only comment on the one external sequencer I have used: mc 808.

it is not exotic but may fit the bill. 16 parts out, 16 track mute, step / real time / tr record. arps + chords and all kinds of stuff.

my experience w/ MX is rough stuff for external sequencing.

aredj · Post by **aredj** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:55 pm

crufty wrote: my experience w/ MX is rough stuff for external sequencing.

I agree... its fine for mono stuff (again.. the evolver)
But beyond that its waaay to simple of a sequencer..

Post by **killedaway** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:34 pm

aredj wrote:
crufty wrote: my experience w/ MX is rough stuff for external sequencing.
I agree... its fine for mono stuff (again.. the evolver)
But beyond that its waaay to simple of a sequencer..

consider that the OP was interested in the Mobius and Step64. forgetting about CV capabilities (which didn't seem of interest here), the EMX offers more options than either of those.

crufty · Post by **crufty** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:52 pm

this may be operator error, but when i muted tracks it didn't mute the midi. plus it has that infernal quantization, so all notes get locked into rigid 1/16.

mc808 allows much deeper editing.

Post by **killedaway** » Thu May 08, 2008 11:25 pm

crufty wrote:this may be operator error, but when i muted tracks it didn't mute the midi. plus it has that infernal quantization, so all notes get locked into rigid 1/16.

mc808 allows much deeper editing.

not sure if you're referring to the EMX-1 there, but yeah, that's operator error.

the EMX mutes over MIDI (i use it all the time). and yes, it has extremely low resolution, but it's a dance/electro machine primarily, and its 16 steps per measure limitation is also shared by both of the sequencers mentioned by the OP. for the record, you can double this resolution within the EMX by simply changing the Beat setting from 16 to 32 (this halves the pattern length as well, but you'll still get a max of 4 measures, which is pretty good).

the 808 is deeper, but conversely is much more complex and far less intuitive. more options and deeper editing comes at a price; in this case, speed and ease-of-use. to be sure, it can be mastered and used to great effect, but goes quite a bit beyond your typical 4/4 16-step sequencer, which i'm guessing is what the OP was after.

clusterchord · Post by **clusterchord** » Fri May 09, 2008 12:30 am

can u have varying velocity in sequnces/ptns on EMX, when firing external gear? or is it just two discrete lvevl thing (normal&accented) like on XoX machines ?

how is MnM in this regard ?

thanks.

PS i want Colin to come up with new Sequentix (P4 ?), and FR to put out a QuadroMobius hehe, four tracks for cv/gate outputs. more song/ptn implementation, and a few more knobs for realttime tweakage.. and then i woke up

tho P4 might happen but who knows when.