Vintage Synth Explorer Forums

Stab Frenzy wrote:What do you think is causing the feature-creep of the Linndrum II? If they weren't listening to forums and user emails then it'd still be a kickarse drum machine and would be out already.

Beta testing... focus groups... user e-mails... I would imagine that what's posted on VSE is probably pretty low priority. Having said that, I suspect DSI and RLD are probably much more likely than Yamakorgland to check in on online forums and I also suspect that, if I was in the synth business, VSE would probably be one of the top-five sites that I'd visit.

It seems like if that were true, they'd have dropped the original vision, which was one more analog drum machine.
So the VSErs could argue about their synth and some other companies TR knock-off line.

Instead they are retooling it and cramming in a ton of features which seems to take a nod at what's actually selling which is the MV8800. Well, that's from one of the big three and not discussed on this forum. Adding MORE on top of what was already there won't impact the analogue interest (unless the price sky rockets), but actually help the machine become more attractive to the feature seekers.

MPCs sell. More than obscure throwback drum machines or sonic clones.
Anything that leans in that direction will help the bottom line.

The machine drum is an issue, but all I see are incredible specs and serious love from its userbase, but not one convincing sound that's a must have or an example of its SONIC power. Plus many complain that it's a pain to learn.

griffin avid wrote:It seems like if that were true, they'd have dropped the original vision, which was one more analog drum machine.
So the VSErs could argue about their synth and some other companies TR knock-off line.

Instead they are retooling it and cramming in a ton of features which seems to take a nod at what's actually selling which is the MV8800. Well, that's from one of the big three and not discussed on this forum. Adding MORE on top of what was already there won't impact the analogue interest (unless the price sky rockets), but actually help the machine become more attractive to the feature seekers.

MPCs sell. More than obscure throwback drum machines or sonic clones.
Anything that leans in that direction will help the bottom line.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, the Boomchik/LDII was never going to be 'one more analogue drum machine'.

The original one (the Boomchik) was announced 2 years ago, and was a lot like an MPC but with the ability to run samples through the analogue synth engine or through digitally modeled filters etc. User feedback from forums (here and mpc-forums.com and others), gearwire etc. led to a lot of extra features like light up pads, x0x sequencing etc and added the option of a non-analogue version which would be a lot more like an MPC, which got announced a year ago.

Where they're at now is anyone's guess, and the current launch date is Q3 09 so I guess we aren't gonna see a mock up even until Musikmesse. The third design was a lot more like an MV, and 'beat-centric audio workstation' sounds a lot like it's gonna be filling the gap where the MPC4000 used to sit. I'm kind of hoping that they realise that the feature-creep has put it into a whole new category though and think about going back to the 'analogue + digital sampling drum machine' rather than the 'MPC + Synth + recorder + sequencer' monster it looks like turning into.

MPCs do sell, but with Akai's four MPCs, the MV-8800 and all the second-hand options out there it would be a tough market to crack without bringing something unique to the table. Offering every feature that's on every competing product just because users requested them isn't a good way to make a musical instrument.

the Boomchik/LDII was never going to be 'one more analogue drum machine'.

"There will be two models: the all-digital LinnDrum II and the LinnDrum II Analog, which adds a 4-voice analog synth"

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here

But then you repeat everything I said.

The third design was a lot more like an MV, and 'beat-centric audio workstation'

"Instead they are retooling it and cramming in a ton of features which seems to take a nod at what's actually selling which is the MV8800." The MV is pretty much what AKAI should have been making and only recently did they release a comparable unit although they say' Inspired by how the MPC product line that Roger originally created for Akai has evolved a new genre of musical instrument'. This was a year in the making while the new MPC just arrived.

Offering every feature that's on every competing product just because users requested them isn't a good way to make a musical instrument.

and...

User feedback from forums (here and mpc-forums.com and others), gearwire etc. led to a lot of extra features like light up pads, x0x sequencing etc and added the option of a non-analogue version which would be a lot more like an MPC

Which one is it?
That's why I said THEY DO NOT focus on that as much as people think and instead the smart money is on what (already) $ells. You almost make it sound like a bad thing to give people what they want. I just say find out what they want by what they buy and support and not what they fantasize about.

griffin avid wrote:

the Boomchik/LDII was never going to be 'one more analogue drum machine'.

"There will be two models: the all-digital LinnDrum II and the LinnDrum II Analog, which adds a 4-voice analog synth"

I gathered from you saying "It seems like if that were true, they'd have dropped the original vision, which was one more analog drum machine.
So the VSErs could argue about their synth and some other companies TR knock-off line." that you were trying to say that the original idea was for a TR knock off, which was not the case. If you were trying to say something else I'm sorry I didn't understand what you were trying to say, maybe try writing more clearly in future.

Just because it has an analogue section doesn't mean it's trying to be like every other analogue drum machine, the newer mockups still have the analogue section.

Offering every feature that's on every competing product just because users requested them isn't a good way to make a musical instrument.

and...

User feedback from forums (here and mpc-forums.com and others), gearwire etc. led to a lot of extra features like light up pads, x0x sequencing etc and added the option of a non-analogue version which would be a lot more like an MPC

Which one is it?

Both. Listening to users' feedback and adding every feature requested is making it turn into an expensive do-everything box. What I was hoping for was a tight sampling drum machine that had a good sound and was more tweakable live than an MPC, which is what the original plans looked like before they started asking for feedback from people.

That's why I said THEY DO NOT focus on that as much as people think and instead the smart money is on what (already) $ells. You almost make it sound like a bad thing to give people what they want. I just say find out what they want by what they buy and support and not what they fantasize about.

Well they do focus on what people think, that's why Roger was asking people to email him telling him of any features they wanted to see on the machine. It was on his website, I'm not speculating here. Maybe you missed the earlier announcements or something, I dunno.

It's fine to make something like what's already out on the market and just do it a little bit better, but I was hoping for (and I think we still might get) something that is really innovative and gives people more than what's already out there.

So the VSErs could argue about their synth and some other companies TR knock-off line."

that you were trying to say that the original idea was for a TR knock off, which was not the case.

That doesn't mention anything to do with the companies aim, but instead how it would be percieved.
Simple question. The original idea drops. What other drum machines will it be sitting next to and going up against?

All the other analog drum machines- 90% of which ARE TR808/909 inspired knock-offs or one-ups.
NOW, it might be some kind of choice between Machine Drum or Lindrum II and if they Push and push those specs *maybe* MV 8800 and MPC 5000 since the sampling aspect could rise to a key point if they do something special with it as both you and I hope.

"It was on his website.."
Which again supports my original point that *most* companies don't lurk on forums trying to figure out what they should do next.

I would have loved an ANALOGUE DRUM MACHINE that specializes in a good sound. That's it. Add a robust sequencer that can do more than quantize 8/16/32/64ths and 4/4 beats and I'm in. Give me more than swing and shuffle, flam and note repeat. I don't want a TR2009. I'd like something that sounds distinctive IN A GOOD WAY. I don't need a CD burner or widescreen TV or the internet on it. I don't want to be forced to sell my wife into prostitution to be able to pay for it. My lawd! Make the SOUND THE POINT. No more white noise snares.

I thought that's where they were going. I want to generate my own drum sounds with enough flexibilty so my drum work can be different -yet familiar to other owners of this drum machine.

This requires Excellent Execution of a simple idea.

DSI gear, like almost simlar to Akai are not even close to being one of the big 3. They may be up there none the less, but if they are listening, make your minikeys offset more like a regular board, specifically the LDII/Boomchic and I'll have something more wanting and gassy of your gears. We will see I suppose even without, keep up the hard work!

Also, wanting to say thanks to Ripe, you lucky bastard! Posted your pic over on the RS7000 Yahoo forum. Give more details about it if you can over there.

Zam

Cool, I went and checked out the Yahoo archive and found my original post about that visit...

it's message 4500 http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/RS ... ssage/4500

Kinda sad now that I just sold my rs7k on eBay last wee.

cheers
ripe

ripe wrote:Kinda sad now that I just sold my rs7k on eBay last wee.

another lost for the child's future

I think the internet has proven to be quite valuable and basically the developers of synths (which has happened) can come onto forums and ask what features or synth do you want to see. That way, doing this over the internet allows the companies to hone in on their target and make a good product from the get go. OS is something that always needs to be developed and rid of bugs, but the feature dept. is where things are starting to take form. These corps realise what we 're talking about on these forums that is personally important to a majority of us and it's easier for them to deliver.