Vintage Synth Explorer Forums

Yes I'm probably doing the 2nd version - I didn't make that clear. Either version is good for me though because basic note on/off is all I'm after.

another tip to cure from stuck notes, but it only helps if it occurs seldom, if it's a regular problem it will still be annoying (but be sure to check my tip concerning midi bombarding...): if a note is stuck, just press more keys at the same time than your synth has voices the stuck note will be released

garranimal wrote:Update. Spider Room Labs Midi Retrofit version 1: When connected to my PC via Emu 1212 Audiodock I'm getting some hanging and missing notes.

Cubase midi filter settings had no effect ....turned out to be an issue with my 3x8 Midiman. When I come straight from the Audiodock into the P6 I'm ok and the midi retrofit is working great. I'll just use my midi B channel for the Polysix that way.

Automatic Gainsay wrote:The things people do for quantization.

I might have known!... I wonder what New Order's Blue Monday would have sounded like without quantization

Behold. The midi jack was installed with a EZ pull rivet gun for that ultra pro look.
The scratches below the midi jack were pre-existing and tend to show up too well with camera flash.

HideawayStudio wrote:

Automatic Gainsay wrote:The things people do for quantization.

I might have known!... I wonder what New Order's Blue Monday would have sounded like without quantization

If you can think of another reason to MIDIfy an analog synth, let me know. It isn't for recording... it's just as easy to multitrack these days as sequence.

As for New Order's incredible masterpiece... that was 1982, wasn't it? Quantization was pretty new and didn't have a couple of decades of tired exploitation back then...

Automatic Gainsay wrote:

HideawayStudio wrote:

Automatic Gainsay wrote:The things people do for quantization.

I might have known!... I wonder what New Order's Blue Monday would have sounded like without quantization

If you can think of another reason to MIDIfy an analog synth, let me know.

...to be able to record a line with complex "automations" (done by hand in realtime) that would not have been possible while also playing (only 2 hands you know...)?

I think we should worry more about the finished product (the song) than whether perfect timing or natural timing is the order of the day. Some songs, I never use midi and play the keys live as I record... other times, beat perfection is almost essential to the nature of the music and would sound quite sloppy and Amateur if done another way - no matter how good your timing, esp in the higher BPMs and while doing ADSR/Filter tweaks 'live'.

Whether that is the abuse of machines over the last 20 years or not who cares, people who like a certain sound like a certain sound and I'm as up for 'perfection' as I am for 'natural' in equal measures, in different moods and on different days. Why someone is making a big fuss out of other's desires to add something to a synth that would now be considered insane not to include, well I can't see any music angle to that interest. It's like soft vs hardware... you use what you use and get the job done and it's the business of no-one else.

And another reason midi can help is if you are trying to produce quickly, actually get finished music out there - most listeners don't give a s**t how or why you did something, that's for musicians to get petty about, they want music and if being able to play a fast sequence in perfect time on my polysix is going to cut my song production time from 3 days to 3 hours then you bet I'll fit one... my ego can handle the fact I used midi as the song is the star not me or my playing skills (or lack of)

pflosi wrote:...to be able to record a line with complex "automations" (done by hand in realtime) that would not have been possible while also playing (only 2 hands you know...)?

That's a bit like saying "I want a robotic violin because I can't play more than two strings at once."
If you want functionality a synth lacks, you don't really want that synth. If you give a synth functionality it lacks, it no longer sounds like that synth. If you don't care that it doesn't sound like that synth anymore, then you don't care if you're using that synth... and could be using any synth which has the functionality you seek. I'm just sayin'.

Pro5 wrote:I think we should worry more about the finished product (the song) than whether perfect timing or natural timing is the order of the day. Some songs, I never use midi and play the keys live as I record... other times, beat perfection is almost essential to the nature of the music and would sound quite sloppy and Amateur if done another way - no matter how good your timing, esp in the higher BPMs and while doing ADSR/Filter tweaks 'live'.

Whether that is the abuse of machines over the last 20 years or not who cares, people who like a certain sound like a certain sound and I'm as up for 'perfection' as I am for 'natural' in equal measures, in different moods and on different days. Why someone is making a big fuss out of other's desires to add something to a synth that would now be considered insane not to include, well I can't see any music angle to that interest. It's like soft vs hardware... you use what you use and get the job done and it's the business of no-one else.

And another reason midi can help is if you are trying to produce quickly, actually get finished music out there - most listeners don't give a s**t how or why you did something, that's for musicians to get petty about, they want music and if being able to play a fast sequence in perfect time on my polysix is going to cut my song production time from 3 days to 3 hours then you bet I'll fit one... my ego can handle the fact I used midi as the song is the star not me or my playing skills (or lack of)

I'm not saying I don't use quantization! I suppose I'm just saying that the more you quantize synths which don't have quantization, the less they sound like the synths they are.
Why would it be "insane" not to include MIDI? It might be insane for a company to manufacture a synth without MIDI because they'll lose a lot of their market... but it is not "insane" for a person NOT to alter a "vintage" synth for their own personal requirements.
If you're quantizing specifically because you can't play "perfectly," then you're using MIDI to make up for your own playing weaknesses. While that's fine (who hasn't done that? Lord knows I have, and do under certain circumstances), it really has nothing to do with composition, synthesizer functionality, or justifying why vintage synths are being altered (and often damaged).

I tend to stray from "hey, no one will know the difference" sort of thinking... because while most people won't know the difference, the person whom you would most like to impress will be among the few who WILL.

Plus, another thing: When musicians who play other instruments want to play something perfectly... they have to work and learn and practice and improve. I don't think it's necessarily an attribute that keyboard players can immediately lean on technology instead of finding more beneficial ways to do what they wish to do (and believe me, I'm not talking down to anyone... I spent over a decade sequencing and quantizing to make up for my own shortcomings). I'm just saying: there are other ways to get what you want.

What if you are playing live, have several synths and aren't a full group? What if you don't want to use recordings? Using midi to make up for a lack of limbs makes sense. It makes even more sense when you can't budget in hiring one or more keyboard players.

Also its weird to say a synth won't sound the same if you add midi. Does midi come with a variety of filters now? I personally haven't thought of adding midi to an analog since Kenton interfaces are available. Like I wouldn't add midi to a Minimoog but I don't think I would have a problem with doing it to a Source(or in this case a Polysix).

Modding analog gear is like blasphemy huh AG? Don't worry AG all these sinners will be going to synth h**l where the only pieces of gear they get are Red Sound Darkstars and the keyboards with speakers they sell at Best Buy. REPENT! Also I am glad to see your book is still doing good Marc.

RobotHeroes wrote:What if you are playing live, have several synths and aren't a full group? What if you don't want to use recordings? Using midi to make up for a lack of limbs makes sense. It makes even more sense when you can't budget in hiring one or more keyboard players.

Also its weird to say a synth won't sound the same if you add midi. Does midi come with a variety of filters now? I personally haven't thought of adding midi to an analog since Kenton interfaces are available. Like I wouldn't add midi to a Minimoog but I don't think I would have a problem with doing it to a Source(or in this case a Polysix).

Modding analog gear is like blasphemy huh AG? Don't worry AG all these sinners will be going to synth h**l where the only pieces of gear they get are Red Sound Darkstars and the keyboards with speakers they sell at Best Buy. REPENT! Also I am glad to see your book is still doing good Marc.

Haha, RH... I have performed live for years as a one man band... the argument doesn't hold. What's the difference between pressing "play" on a CD and initiating a sequencer? Well, there are a lot of differences, but none of them require you to have sequenced, or more importantly, quantized.
I know it's always convenient to portray me as some sort of elitist f**k, but I also performed for years with a sequencer... a CD player is more reliable (dear God, have you ever had to wait for an EPS-16+ to load a bank?).
There is a very great deal more to analog than filters.
Ha ha, you won't see me complaining about adding MIDI to a Source, it's the only way you're going to have access to multiple parameters at once. Worse than MIDI modification is the DREADED ONE KNOB. hee.
Oh, I wouldn't say modding analog is blasphemy... I wanted very badly to add a 1/4th inch jack as an input to the PS-3100... my God, everyone should be able to have a Resonator. It's just that adding MIDI to some synths is like writing the note names on the keys... it might help you play in the short run, but it isn't going to help you sell in the long run. After all... isn't there a MASSIVE CONSPIRACY where analog synths are only sold to this shadow consortium who only puts the synths away in boxes and never plays them? Isn't this consortium responsible for the crazy prices? Well, they're not going to be buying the synths with stickers, note names, or MIDI imperfectly installed by that guy you know who repairs air conditioners.

I know I'm making a problem when RH makes an impassioned response instead of just making fun of me. Forgive me, everyone... I just wanted to remind you that there is another way than just MIDIfying everything.

NO really it's no reflection on my ability to be able to play 'in time' (I'm actually very good and have great timing - on Keyboards, Guitar and Bass). It's to do with being a 'producer' vs just a keyboard player. If you want to be a synth god and hone your licks and feel good that it was all done 'live' then sure leave the midi out of it, but for me who has a job to do (finish a song in which I play guitar, keys, bass and sing as well as mix/produce) I want the flexibility to use midi (or not) as and when I need it. If you couldn't fit midi to a polysix then I'd still love the synth and I would use it, and play 'in time' as much as I want. If it IS available and .. for people like me it's FUN to mod their synths and 'improve' them in features - no I wouldn't do it to some hyper expensive holy grail of synths but we are talking about a polysix here - then I'll consider doing it for those occassions when I would prefer to use midi to run a sequence through it (yes I record everthing these days back to audio tracks of course).

And besides that, sometimes it IS a creative choice to have 'perfect' timing or close, the whole sound of a tightly sequenced synth line conveys a different feel to one played completely live (even with great timing) - dependent on BPM also - sometimes the former is preferable, but either way it's nice to have the choice. The mod is cheap and fairly easy so it's a no brainer to me.

There must be some reason that a market exists for midi>CV interfaces and midi-retrofits and it's about adding that 'classic' sound to a flexible studio where you can control any synth from one base.

Another great reason is to be able to play the synth from ANOTHER keyboard which as the polysix keyboard is flaky (needs cleaning a lot) is understandable. And also because many players (Not quantization lovers) may want to control all those sound sources from one chair via a beautiful master keyboard - midi makes that simple

Without midi it is cut off from all these choices and while it may feel good to know it's a genuine 'real man's synth' without midi, that doesn't help me at 3am in the morning when a polysix key gives up, or I need a fast/tight sequence recording in short time!

Automatic Gainsay wrote:

pflosi wrote:...to be able to record a line with complex "automations" (done by hand in realtime) that would not have been possible while also playing (only 2 hands you know...)?

That's a bit like saying "I want a robotic violin because I can't play more than two strings at once."
If you want functionality a synth lacks, you don't really want that synth. If you give a synth functionality it lacks, it no longer sounds like that synth. If you don't care that it doesn't sound like that synth anymore, then you don't care if you're using that synth... and could be using any synth which has the functionality you seek. I'm just sayin'.

well no offense, i really appreciate your enthusiasm, but that was about the stupidest post i've seen from you here. I'm not talking about van halen riffs with wide open filters or minimoog leads, which both don't need lots of change. not everyone makes prog rock. i wanna see somebody play short, fast stabs on, say 120 bpm, over a whole track of 6 minutes, while at the same time altering vcf cutoff freq, vcf eg intensity, the eg itself, resonance, add vibrato etc... even to be able to remember everything that you would want to change in realtime. well the P6 has a chord function but i'm not really just talking about the P6 now... and not even talking bout what perfect timing such stabs need.

yes, you could say "use a plugin", but i don't think YOU would say that to someone that only uses hardware, and almost only analog synths....?