"Non-vintage" vs. "why vintage?"

[psionic11]

"Non-vintage!" synths
Alesis Fusion
Nord Modular
Waldorf Blofeld
Korg Oasys
Korg M3
Roland Fantom series
Yamaha VL70m
Yamaha VL1
Technics WSA-1

"Why vintage?" synths
Yamaha Motif series
Yamaha AN1x
Korg Triton
Roland SH-201
Korg M1
Korg microKorg
Roland Juno-D
Roland Juno-G
Alesis Quadrasynth
Alesis AirFX
Sonic Foundry Acid

Why? What qualifies a synth or workstation or piece of software as "vintage"? Why are so many other more obviously better qualified left out? It can't be that too-recent a time-period or if it's a 'rompler' or 'workstation' disqualifies a candidate, can it?

For example, if vintagesynth.com doesn't list 'workstations' as properly 'vintage', then why list the Yamaha Motif series or the Korg M1 or Triton series, but not list the Korg M3 or even the much-deserving Oasys, nor even a single mention of anything from the Roland Fantom series?

Why are so many physical modelling engines left out -- the Yamaha VL1, the VL70m, the Technics WSA. The Yamaha EX5 gets mention, as does the Korg Z1, but the previous 3 are just as worthy if not moreso.

The Nord Modular nor the Waldord Blofeld get included, but the Korg microKorg and Sonic Foundry Acid and Alesis Quadrasynth and Roland Juno-D do?!

My biggest beef is this --- why doesn't the Alesis Fusion get listed as a vintage synth? It bests the Korg Triton or the modern Roland Juno-G workstations, and clearly rivals the Korg M1/Yamaha Motif/Roland Fantom workstation series...

And it certainly brings more to the table (or brought, considering release date) than did a Korg microKorg or Korg DS8 or Roland SH-201 or Alesis AirFX, or even the mediocre Alesis Quadrasynth, for god's sake!

I'd like to know why the Fusion cannot join its Alesis brethren on the 'vintage list' -- Quadrasynth, HR-16 and D4, nanoPiano and nanoBass, MMT-8, AirSynth (and AirFX)... certainly the Fusion is as worthy as the Micron/Ion... the Fusion has FM, a drum multi-sample engine, physical modelling, VA, an open-ended sampling/ROMpler, 8 track audio/MIDI sequencing, user-recordable drum/standard/phrase ARPs, multi-FX with re-sampling and EXT in, a 32-slot MOD matrix including 8 ENVs and 8 LFOs, ADSSRs with variable slopes, 25 filter types, 8 Ins and 4 OUTs, ADAT and S/PDIF outs, and a USB interface to an internal hard drive to hold all those audio tracks/multisamples/patches/songs.

The Alesis Fusion is as worthy as an Oasys or Nord Modular, and all these deserve to be added to the vintage list, right? She's certainly more deserving than a microKorg or Juno-D or DX-21 or Quadrasynth...

[RobotHeroes]

The site is called vintagesynth.com it doesn't mean everything listed IS vintage. It even says so on the front page.

"The Vintage Synth Explorer was established back in 1996 in order to provide a fast and easy way to learn about vintage synthesizers. This has grown to include modern digital and analog emulators, software synths, plug-ins, and other new types of synthesizers and samplers."

The list is incomplete and the site owner has asked members to submit well written reviews to add to the list.

[otto]

Well none of those are really vintage synths...

I'd rather not see VSE bogged down with workstations, even if they do include on-board synths. I don't think the Juno-D should be on VSE either. On the other hand the inclusion of VA's such as the microkorg/MS2000, Nord Modular are at least just synthesizers and are more or less intended to emulate vintage gear. The thing is, opening this up to recent workstations and romplers is a slippery slope, where you do you stop? When VSE has nothing to do with vintage synths anymore?

They give into the workstations owners and pretty soon people will want all the crappy yami PSS' and casio consumer boards...

[RobotHeroes]

Consumer Vs. Pro

Brace for impact!

[griffin avid]

I guess it centers around the accepted definition of Vintage in regard to synths.

...been around a while....
...classic....
...popular, so it comes up often in searches...
...has a legacy worth tracking or history...
...remains musically relevant...or worth owning...today..
...made during a Silver Age of analogue craftwork....


The things that first caught my attention were....

Synths that were rare and hard to find information on...
The list of who used it...
the images that inspired gear lust...

And the fact that it was an exclusive club (whether fully accurate or not) -it gave the sense that if you didn't find something on there then it wasn't truly worthy. Sure there were a few bums, but they would be rare pieces and seemed to be there for novelty. And they were called out as such.

The reviews were based on track records or a records' track. Now, many of the new pieces have descriptions that seem meant to sell them instead of a historic statement about their place in music production history.

[tekkentool]

or...

stop complaining the site's free.

[psionic11]

Thanks for the head's up, new to the site. I missed the top post on the front page asking for user-submitted reviews.

[meatballfulton]

Sonic Foundry Acid included?

It was the first program that allowed real time stretching. Science fiction at the time but something we all now take for granted. It was a significant milestone in electronic music history. The very first real-time softsynths (Reality and Rebirth) arrived in 1997 and Acid arrived in 1998. Think about it, a mere 13 years later we have people working 100% in software which was literally impossible before 1997.

My biggest beef is this --- why doesn't the Alesis Fusion get listed as a vintage synth?

It's barely 5 years old?

[psionic11]

My biggest beef is this --- why doesn't the Alesis Fusion get listed as a vintage synth?

It's barely 5 years old?

Hmm, the Fusion was released 2005, but age seems not to be a disqualifier for these toys which made the "vintage" list:

2008: Chimera bC16 (really?!), Juno Stage
2007: Spectral Audio Cyclus 3 <== gimmick
2006: Kaoss Pad KP3 (omfg), Roland SH-201, Motif MO6
2005: Juno D

At least these newbies have some of this elusive quality we call "vintage":

2007: Little Phatty, V-Synth GT (wishlist), DSI Prophet, Motif XS (meh)
2006: DSI Mono Evolver
2005: DSI Poly Evolver, MacBeth Studio Systems M5

The Fusion may not be a V-Synth, but it sure beats a Kaoss Pad or a Juno D. Just sayin'...

[tekkentool]

My biggest beef is this --- why doesn't the Alesis Fusion get listed as a vintage synth?

It's barely 5 years old?

Hmm, the Fusion was released 2005, but age seems not to be a disqualifier for these toys which made the "vintage" list:

2008: Chimera bC16 (really?!), Juno Stage
2007: Spectral Audio Cyclus 3 <== gimmick
2006: Kaoss Pad KP3 (omfg), Roland SH-201, Motif MO6
2005: Juno D

At least these newbies have some of this elusive quality we call "vintage":

2007: Little Phatty, V-Synth GT (wishlist), DSI Prophet, Motif XS (meh)
2006: DSI Mono Evolver
2005: DSI Poly Evolver, MacBeth Studio Systems M5

The Fusion may not be a V-Synth, but it sure beats a Kaoss Pad or a Juno D. Just sayin'...

put a cork in that whine

[edfunction]

2007: Spectral Audio Cyclus 3 <== gimmick

Sure it's not old and classic (yet?) but to me it looks super useful. I want one!
For me it fits in the list because, like many classic pieces of gear, it has specific uses/features that are not available or addressed by other bits of gear. Or at least not commonly...

There's lots of gear that's gimicky to some but useful to others. I feel this way towards the kaos pads and the tenori-on, but people like them and use them (to good effect, i'm sure) so I'm happy.

[clubbedtodeath]

Consumer Vs. Pro

You bad, bad man.

[tyrannosaurus mark]

Wait, so my Little Phatty isn't a vintage synth?

[yeahrightkid]

They give into the workstations owners and pretty soon people will want all the crappy yami PSS' and casio consumer boards...

Easy there. I'd actually love to get more info on the earlier analog Casiotones. I've got a wooden one with a light pen, analog drums, and organ tabs and I gotta say it's pretty cool. The internet has very little info on the older models of Casios but they are just the kind of thing that an enterprising synth musician could have a lot of fun with. Same goes for the Yammys; I've got a pss-480 which is a proper synth with the ability to edit the 2-op FM engine plus programmable PCM drums that sound straight outta the rx-5. It's from 1986 and it's got mini-keys and midi and it does great basses and ambient pads or harsh cutting leads (sounds sweet through my CS-15's filters too!) You can knock the sample based Casios and Yamahas from the 90's on up, but the earlier models are cool and worth a look, and definitely worthy of being on the VSE.

[Automatic Gainsay]

Consumer Vs. Pro

Anytime I've even hinted at the above-stated concept, only the short attention span of the standard internet user saved me from being lynched. RH, you have special powers.