"ahh" sound-Billy Joel's "Just the Way You Are"

[sbhamilton]

I've heard conflicting opinions on the "ahhhh" vocal sounds that are heard in Billy Joel's "Just the Way You Are" (e.g., 2nd verse). Some say it was done with real voices using tape loops, whereas others say it is a Mellotron.
To me, it sounds a lot like 10cc's "I'm not in love", which I think was done with real vocal overdubs and looping. But, I also know there was a choir vocal Mellotron sound that was used in the mid to late 70's as well.

Does anyone have a link to a definitive (i.e., non-wiki) article on this?

[braincandy]

No links or inside knowledge, but the process used in "I'm not in Love" sounds a lot like the backing vocals in that song. It doesn't sound like a Mellotron at all.

[WhinyLittleRunt]

I'm pretty sure 10cc "I'm Not In Love" was a Mellotron, but I am not positive.

I know that doesn't answer your original question but still...

[braincandy]

I'm pretty sure 10cc "I'm Not In Love" was a Mellotron, but I am not positive.

I know that doesn't answer your original question but still...

There wasn't any Mellotron used for that track. Here's the background story:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun05/a ... tracks.htm

[V301H]

They did load the vocal loop sounds into a Mellotron for live performances. "Wall Street Shuffle", "Hotel", and other tracks used Mellotron on the recordings.

[b3groover]

That article was awesome. Thanks for posting.

[elsongs]

Most of Billy Joel's hit songs were derived/influenced by the music styles of other artists:

"You May Be Right" - The Rolling Stones
"Don't Ask Me Why" - Paul Simon
"An Innocent Man" - The Drifters
"Piano Man" - Bob Dylan
"Uptown Girl" - Franki Valli and the Four Seasons
"My Life" - Jackson Browne


So when the 10cc influence came up, it totally made sense.

[Esus]

A bit of a tangent from the thread, but I've always wondered about James Taylor's In the Pocket (1976). Several tunes, including Shower the People, have a distinctive Mellotron-like choir, but the credits list "voiceorgan". Another tune, Money Machine, lists voiceorgan and "hornorgan". Maybe they just recorded their own vocals ala 10cc, and synth brass parts.

Anyone out there have an answer for this?

[cornutt]

Given the time period, the Billy Joel stuff was done with voice loops and console automation, would be my guess. Steve Hackett did something similar on Please Don't Touch; they recorded and looped a bunch of vocal sounds, and used the console automation to "sequence" it.

[Airlane1979]

Given the time period, the Billy Joel stuff was done with voice loops and console automation, would be my guess.

It's entirely possible that was how it was recorded. However, Joel went on the BBC's Old Grey Whistle Test in March 1978 (available on YouTube) in which he performed this song and the mix clearly shows the same Aaaah-type backing vocal. So perhaps a Mellotron there.

[madtheory]

Highly doubtful. Mellotrons cannot loop. There's no Mellotron on the stage. The vocal playback is smooth with no wobbling- a Mellotron is rough and wobbly. This is caused by the key pressure on the playhead. It is pressure sensitive!

It could be done simply by fading in the pre-recorded loop off a tape at front of house. Literally "flying it in" at the right points in the song. It's a sustained sound with no rhythm to it so it's not hard to sync.

Not saying that's how they did it, but it's much more likely than a Mellotron.

[Airlane1979]

Highly doubtful. Mellotrons cannot loop. There's no Mellotron on the stage. The vocal playback is smooth with no wobbling- a Mellotron is rough and wobbly. This is caused by the key pressure on the playhead. It is pressure sensitive!

It could be done simply by fading in the pre-recorded loop off a tape at front of house. Literally "flying it in" at the right points in the song. It's a sustained sound with no rhythm to it so it's not hard to sync.

Not saying that's how they did it, but it's much more likely than a Mellotron.

I accept your knowledge on this matter. Certainly, recordings I've heard with Mellotrons such as OMD's Joan of Arc demonstrate clearly that rough, wobbly quality you describe. But flying it in live - that would require an engineer with a sense of musical timing, perhaps a rare breed then as now. However it was done live in 1978, the result is unusual and highly musical.

[thoracius]

Speaking of OMD, I believe Souvenir was done using the technique from 10cc's I'm Not In Love, by recording the different notes on different tracks and using the console faders to fade in and out the different notes. Considering that Just The Way You Are came out two years after I'm Not In Love, it's not unlikely they were also inspired by the technique. Also uses a similar phased Rhodes, so probably were just going for "that sound" production-wise.

As far as the question of whether their sound guy could hit play on the playback and fade it out at the right places, I don't think that's too complicated. You should see what Queen was doing at the time live. As mentioned, it doesn't even need to line up perfectly, since it's essentially just a drone in D.

[Airlane1979]

Speaking of OMD, I believe Souvenir was done using the technique from 10cc's I'm Not In Love, by recording the different notes on different tracks and using the console faders to fade in and out the different notes. Considering that Just The Way You Are came out two years after I'm Not In Love, it's not unlikely they were also inspired by the technique. Also uses a similar phased Rhodes, so probably were just going for "that sound" production-wise.

As far as the question of whether their sound guy could hit play on the playback and fade it out at the right places, I don't think that's too complicated. You should see what Queen was doing at the time live. As mentioned, it doesn't even need to line up perfectly, since it's essentially just a drone in D.

Thanks for that informative reply. I'm amazed at what was achieved in the analogue era when everything was so much more complicated, like those really long tape loops in the studio.